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Subject: Re: SV: [plcs-dex] Issue: Use of /IGNORE


Hmm, David, you are saying that the static list of "do-not-use" 
attributes can be hardcoded into a parser so the value is never read at 
all, so the value "I am nothing", would never be seen.

So, I agree with you: to what purpose are we cluttering up the exchange 
files with semantically null values that take up 7 bytes per attribute?

The only thing I can think of is something like:

"A conforming PLCS (DEX?) processor is required to ignore all attributes 
listed in XXX when reading an exchange file. However, a validating 
processor may (must?) check that the attributes have a consistent value 
of '/IGNORE', otherwise an error (warning?) message is logged. 
Furthermore, upon creating a conforming excahange file, all attributes 
listed in XXX must be assigned the value '/IGNORE'."

Regards,
Per-Åke

David Price wrote:
> All,
> 
> If the DEX specifies that any particular value shall always be exchanged
> using something like Identification_assignment rather than the Id attribute,
> then it cannot matter whether '/IGNORE', '' or 'Je suis null' is set as the
> Id attribute value or not. A conforming post-processor will never look at
> that value.
> 
> A simple EXPRESS parser would tell you a mandatory attribute is missing if
> nothing were there if it was used to validate the data. Spelling out /IGNORE
> for an EXPRESS parser isn't useful - it doesn't understand English. You
> might as well reduce the file size by simply using ''.
> 
> Cheers,
> David
> 
> 
> 
> --------- Original Message --------
> From: Gyllström Leif <leif.gyllstrom@aerotechtelub.se>
> To: Per-Åke Ling <per-ake.ling@eurostep.com>, plcs-dex@lists.oasis-open.org
> <plcs-dex@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Subject: SV: [plcs-dex] Issue: Use of /IGNORE
> Date: 23/09/05 10:28
> 
> 
>>Yes
>>
>>See comment below
>>
>>Leif
>>
>>
>>-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
>>Från: Per-Åke Ling [mailto:per-ake.ling@eurostep.com]
>>Skickat: den 23 september 2005 11:12
>>Till: peter.bergstrom@eurostep.com
>>Kopia: rob.bodington@eurostep.com; plcs-dex@lists.oasis-open.org
>>Ämne: Re: [plcs-dex] Issue: Use of /IGNORE
>>
>>
>>To paraphrase: '/IGNORE' means the attribute should not have been in the
> 
> model at all in the first place, irrespective of whether I have a value
> 
>>for it or no, or even understand the semantics?
>>
>>In other words, walkig through the model we could statically define the
>>attributes that will always carry the value '/IGNORE' in every exchange,
> 
> and no other attributes will ever have the value '/IGNORE'? (Except as a
> true data value...)
> 
>>&lt;LEIF&gt; Yes ! There is a first draft uploaded to dexlib/docs which
>>shows a suggested &quot;static&quot; usage/non-usage of all entity
> 
> attributes.&lt;/LEIF&gt;
> 
>>
>>Is this correct?
>>
>>Regards,
>>Per-ÅKe Ling
>>
>>Peter Bergstrom wrote:
>>&gt; Do I understand correctly if this means the following:
>>&gt;
>>&gt; The description attribute on Product is optional. If descriptions are
>>&gt; going to be assigned to entities instead of using the attribute
> 
> value, &gt; mainly due to multilingual issues, it then means that all
> 
>>&gt; Product.descriptions must be set to '/GNORE' even though they (as
>>&gt; defined now) could just be left out?
>>&gt;
>>&gt; I think this is polluting the physical files, but it is also slightly
>>&gt; more consistent than the current rule, so I will accept it although I
> 
> do
> 
>>&gt; not really see a need to change the current rule.
>>&gt;
>>&gt; Peter Bergström
>>&gt;
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     -----Original Message-----
>>&gt;     *From:* Rob Bodington [mailto:rob.bodington@eurostep.com]
>>&gt;     *Sent:* den 23 september 2005 09:57
>>&gt;     *To:* plcs-dex@lists.oasis-open.org
>>&gt;     *Subject:* [plcs-dex] Issue: Use of /IGNORE
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     Hi
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     A core of plcs modellers met this week.
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     We raised and addressed this issue.
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     If anyone does not like the resolution please say so.
>>&gt;
>>&gt;
>>&gt;
>>&gt;
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     */Issue: RBN-1 by Rob Bodington (/**/05-09-02/**/)/*/
>>&gt;     minor_technical issue /
>>&gt;     /Resolution: Accept. Status: open/
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     /IGNORE is used inconsistently throughout the capabilities.
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     According to AP239 annex and
> 
> dexlib/help/dex/implementor_trans.xml,
> 
>>&gt;     the following should be used.
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     In particular optional values should default to '$' and only be
> 
> set
> 
>>&gt;     to '/IGNORE' if there is a value assigned.
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     *Value*
>>&gt;
>>&gt;
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     *Description*
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     ''
>>&gt;
>>&gt;
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     indicates user data managed by the sending system but not
> 
> provided
> 
>>&gt;     for data exchange.
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     '/NULL'
>>&gt;
>>&gt;
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     indicates user data in a mandatory attribute that is not managed
> 
> by
> 
>>&gt;     the sending system or currently not known.
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     '$'
>>&gt;
>>&gt;
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     $ is used in the physical file, if an optional attribute is not
>>&gt;     instantiated.
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     '/IGNORE'
>>&gt;
>>&gt;
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     Attribute values are set to '/IGNORE' when the information that
>>&gt;     could be held by the attribute is instead assigned to the
> 
> instance
> 
>>&gt;     of the entity.
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     *Table — Attribute values*
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     *Comment: *(Rob Bodington 05-09-21*)*
>>&gt;     The proposal is that wherever an attribute should not be used,
> 
> i.e.
> 
>>&gt;     it should have been removed from the model as assignment is used
>>&gt;     instead, it should be populated with /IGNORE, regardless of
> 
> whether
> 
>>&gt;     the attribute is used or not. This means that any translator does
>>&gt;     not have to parse the attributes to determine whether there is an
>>&gt;     assignment holding the value or not. This should be consistent
>>&gt;     through out.
>>&gt;
>>&gt;
>>&gt;
>>&gt;
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     Regards
>>&gt;     Rob
>>&gt;
>>&gt;     -------------------------------------------
>>&gt;     Rob Bodington
>>&gt;     Eurostep Limited
>>&gt;     Web Page: http://www.eurostep.com
> 
> &lt;http://www.eurostep.com/&gt;
> 
>>&gt;     http://www.share-a-space.com
> 
> &lt;http://www.share-a-space.com/&gt;
> 
>>&gt;     Email: Rob.Bodington@eurostep.com
>>&gt;     Phone: +44 (0)1454 270030
>>&gt;     Mobile: +44 (0)7796 176 401
>>&gt;
>>&gt;
>>&gt;
>>
>>
>>--
>>==Per-Åke Ling         email: per-ake.ling_AT_eurostep.com   .~.
>>Eurostep AB          mobile: +46 709 566 490              / v
>>Vasagatan 38         http://www.eurostep.com             /( _ )
>>SE-111 20 Stockholm                                        ^ ^
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________
> Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2
> 


-- 
========================================================
Per-Åke Ling         email: per-ake.ling_AT_eurostep.com   .~.
Eurostep AB          mobile: +46 709 566 490              / v \
Vasagatan 38         http://www.eurostep.com             /( _ )\
SE-111 20 Stockholm                                        ^ ^


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