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Subject: RE: [provision] Fw: SPML Roadmap



As Rami notes there are several ways to solve the issue representing of
complex data types represented in a hierarchical attribute/multi-values
data model. These issues have been so thoroughly discussed in other
venues that I won't repeated them here. 

SPML is not limited to managing accounts. It can also be used to manage
other types of objects such as groups, organizations, etc. It can also
be used to manage objects that are contained by other objects, which is
one way to represent complex data types.

One approach that would work for the Liberty Personal Identity Profile
would be to represent the core profile in one object and then have
contained objects for each of the complex data types. For instance there
would be an InformalName attribute on the profile object but the list of
CommonName objects would be represented as contained instances of a
common name object. Likewise the common name object would have a CN
attribute but the list of AnnalyzedName objects would represented as
contained instances of analyzed named objects.

You could then create, modify, or delete all of the relavent objects in
a single SPML Batch Request.

Again there are several ways to do the same thing.


Jeff Bohren
Product Architect
OpenNetwork Technologies, Inc
 


-----Original Message-----
From: Gearard Woods [mailto:gewoods@us.ibm.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 4:10 PM
To: provision@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [provision] Fw: SPML Roadmap 







----- Forwarded by Gearard Woods/Irvine/IBM on 07/23/2003 01:10 PM -----
|---------+---------------------------->
|         |           Gearard Woods    |
|         |                            |
|         |           07/23/2003 10:48 |
|         |           AM               |
|---------+---------------------------->
 
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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  |
|
  |       To:      "Elron, Rami" <rami_elron@bmc.com>
|
  |       cc:      provision@lists.oasis-open.org, "Elron, Rami"
<rami_elron@bmc.com>                                            |
  |       From:    Gearard Woods/Irvine/IBM@IBMUS
|
  |       Subject: RE: SPML Roadmap (Document link: Gearard Woods)
|
 
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Rami,
Thanks for the document.  I'm afraid that it doesn't address my concerns
though and I think you might be underestimating the coupling between the
schema and the data model.  If you are suggesting that an XML Schema
document could be referenced by an SPML schema, then the SPML is obliged
to allow instances of structures defined in that schema to be
transported. Let's remain with the Liberty user profile and get very
specific about what the schema would look like and how the schema
impacts the data model.  To extend your example, I imagine that you are
suggesting that the Liberty schema be referenced like this:

<schema>
    <objectClassDefinition name="LibertyPersonalProfile">
     <superiorClasses>
       <objectClassDefinitionReference name="Complex">
          <schemaIdentifier
schemaIDType="urn:oasis:names:tc:SPML:1:0#GenericString">

<schemaID>http://www.projectliberty.org/specs/lib-svc-id-pp.xsd</schemaI
D>
            </schemaIdentifier>
       </objectClassDefinitionReference>
     </superiorClasses>
     </objectClassDefinition>
</schema>

This raises a number of questions:
1. How is the element inside the schema document identified?  I'm
interested only in the IDPP element.  I disagree with the suggestion
that specific names be reserved by the way, this seems cumbersome and
esentially turns the name into something else. 2. Imagining that I do
identify the portion of the schema that I'm interested in, how do I use
it?  In your document you say that "While the definition may seem to
imply reliance on a simple attribute/value model, it can actually
leverage this very model to take advantage of much more complex data
structures." If this is true, what would the add request look like based
on the external schema?  What about a modify request? These both require
an attribute/value model so I'm having some difficulty understanding how
the XML Schema would relate to the actual request data. If you could
show me specifically what the request XML would look like in both cases
I'd be obliged. 3. If the SPML really can actually consume XML Schema,
why define a separate, SPML-specific, schema language? Gerry



|---------+---------------------------->
|         |           "Elron, Rami"    |
|         |           <rami_elron@bmc.c|
|         |           om>              |
|         |                            |
|         |           07/23/2003 08:51 |
|         |           AM               |
|---------+---------------------------->
 
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------|
  |
|
  |       To:       Gearard Woods/Irvine/IBM@IBMUS,
provision@lists.oasis-open.org
|
  |       cc:       "Elron, Rami" <rami_elron@bmc.com>
|
  |       Subject:  RE: SPML Roadmap
|
 
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Hi Gerry,

The attached document addresses and hopefully answers your concerns. If
you have any further questions or remarks regarding this document or the
roadmap document, please do not hesitate to call me.

Best regards,

Rami.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

---------

Rami Elron
Senior System Architect
Security Business Unit
BMC Software Ltd.

Tel: 972 3 766 2434
Fax: 972 3 645 1100
Mobile: 972 64 286 434
email: rami_elron@bmc.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Gearard Woods [mailto:gewoods@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:22 AM
To: rami_elron@bmc.com; provision@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: SPML Roadmap






Rami,
Further to the call yesterday, I wanted to clarify one of the major
problems that I have with the SPML as it stands and to get your feedback
on how the problem might be solved either with today's approach or with
features that are on the roadmap.  Fundamentally, I believe that the
schema language introduced by the current SPML is too restrictive and
reflects a data model that will not be able to satisfy my immediate
needs to transport complex XML data.  In fact, I have difficulty seeing
how a roadmap built on this schema language can be made to fit my
requirements in the long run. As an example, could you explain to me how
I might use the SPML in the simple scenario where I have a service (a
Web Service) that I wish to provision which requires the user
information to be provided using the Liberty Alliance user profile
(http://www.projectliberty.org/specs/lib-svc-id-pp.xsd)?  This is not an
outlandish scenario by any means, and you could substitute other user
representations such the ebXML UserType for example.  Obviously, since
the SPML cannot support XML Schema, I have to think that publishing the
schema for such a service might be problematic.  It also seems
difficult, given the attribute/value data model in the current SPML, to
communicate an instance of one of these structures.  If you can reassure
me that this is in fact quite seamless and simple in the current SPML,
or your roadmap answers this concern, I would be very grateful.

Thanks,
Gerry




#### Response to SPML Roadmap concerns.doc has been removed from this
note on July 23, 2003 by Gearard Woods


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