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Subject: [WS-Notification][Fwd: Re: [regrep] Fwd: Re: [emergency] BEA, Microsoft, and Tibco Release WS-Eventing Specification]

I looked back on this January 2004 e-mail below regarding the
WS-Eventing vendor specification with a new perspective given events
(pardon the pun) since that time, and thought I'd forward some thoughts:

OASIS now has a WS-Notification TC[1], which is a direct "competitor"
(functionally speaking) to WS-Eventing. WS-Notification leverages the
work defined in Web Services Resource Framework (WSRF - which came out
of the Grid community), which is also a new TC. The major difference
between the 2 specifications (WS-Eventing and WS-Notification) is that
WS-Eventing's model requires tightly coupling between the "event filter"
declaration and the format of the streaming content (it uses XPath
expressions), while WS-Notification uses a more loosely-coupled
topic-based subscription method.


[1] http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=wsn

-------- Original Message --------
   Subject: Re: [regrep] Fwd: Re: [emergency] BEA, Microsoft, and Tibco
            Release WS-Eventing Specification
      Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:08:09 -0500
      From: "David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info>
        To: <regrep@lists.oasis-open.org>, "Rex Brooks"
References: <a0601021cbc287f3fc54c@[]>

Rex, I too saw this - and its a W3C submission.  Sometimes vendors
submit thesethings to the W3C in the hope that it might eventually
become a standard,or incorporated into work somewhere. Notice that any
work that OASIS is doing is treated as invisible WRT theW3C
architecture.  So maybe they feel they need this there? Anyway - I too
was baffled as to any possible value that this may addat this point -
except to waste some time and resource on determiningthat. DW.

     ----- Original Message -----
     From: Rex Brooks
     To: regrep@lists.oasis-open.org
     Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 11:56 AM
     Subject: [regrep] Fwd: Re: [emergency] BEA, Microsoft, and
     Tibco Release WS-Eventing Specification
      Excuse the non-sequitur post, but I wondered if anyone on
     this list might be interested in this development? It's billed
     as a substrate allowing more than simple http request-response
     by using ws-addressing to decouple message from transport. I
     thought that was already possible, but maybe I missed
     something. What do we really need that registries and http
     request-response doesn't do while very effectively restraining
     clutter and scalability issues in important channels (not to
     mention enforcing security considerations)? Also, shouldn't
     "eventing" be reserved to processes that have definite,
     understood, triggered response processes? An interesting event
     sounds a bit like a distraction more than an important event
     with immediate important consequences. Sounds like a
     boondoggle to me, but what do I know, eh? Ciao,Rex

    >  Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:42:21 -0800
    >  To: "Aerts, John F." <jfaerts@lasd.org>,
    >  emergency@lists.oasis-open.org
    >  From: Rex Brooks <rexb@starbourne.com>
    >  Subject: Re: [emergency] BEA, Microsoft, and Tibco Release
    >  WS-Eventing Specification
    >  Cc:
    >  "'emergency-if@lists.oasis-open.org'"<emergency-if@lists.oasis-open.org>
    >  Bcc:
    >  X-Attachments:

    >  Thanks, John,


    >  This is of more than a little interest. It troubles me. I
    >  don't understand what this is good for in and of itself. It
    >  doesn't "DO" anything but pass messages as far as I can see,
    >  and doesn't do anything else that isn't already possible.
    >  Also it introduces yet more new "notation" that uses "?".,
    >  "*" and "+" for cardinality values. WSRP already has a
    >  registry-based WSDL mechanism for the processes described in
    >  this specification, not to mention a whole flock of
    >  mechanisms that were crafted in order to leave room for
    >  "true" eventing. Eventing requires (IMHO) "triggering"
    >  mechanisms with clear defined results quite beyond receipt
    >  of a simple message whether it is an event, notification or
    >  what? and regardless of whether or not any such
    >  "subscription" is involved beyond "registration."


    >  It also bothers me when I see a specification that so
    >  concerned with fault messages and failure scenarios.


    >  All of which adds up in my mind to an attempt to somehow
    >  "own" the term "eventing" and apply the concept of
    >  "subscription" to it.


    >  I think we can do a lot better.


    >  Ciao,

    >  Rex


    >  At 6:16 AM -0800 1/12/04, Aerts, John F. wrote:
    > > This may be of interest.
    > >
    > >
    > > WS-Eventing describes how to construct an event-oriented
    > > message
    > > exchange pattern using WS-Addressing concepts, allowing
    > > Web services
    > > to act as event sources for subscribers. It defines the
    > > operations
    > > required to manage subscriptions to event sources, as well
    > > as how the
    > > actual event messages are constructed....
    > > Http://www.webservices.org/index.php/article/view/1300/BEA
    > >
    > > John Aerts, Lieutenant
    > >
    > > CCHRS Program Manager
    > >
    > > Records & Identification Bureau
    > > 12440 E. Imperial Highway, Suite 400W
    > > Norwalk, California 90650
    > >
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    > > Pager:800 273 8474
    > > FAX :323 415 2666
    > >
    > >
    > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from
    > > the roster of the OASIS TC), go to
    > > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/emergency/members/leave_workgroup.php.


    >  --


    >  Rex Brooks
    >  GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison, Berkeley, CA, 94702 USA, Earth
    >  W3Address: http://www.starbourne.com
    >  Email: rexb@starbourne.com

    >  Tel: 510-849-2309

    >  Fax: By Request


     Rex Brooks
     GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison, Berkeley, CA, 94702 USA, Earth
     W3Address: http://www.starbourne.com
     Email: rexb@starbourne.comTel: 510-849-2309Fax: By Request

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