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Subject: Re: [regrep] Proposed changes to ebMS Binding and HTTP Binding


David:

Comments inline:

David RR Webber wrote:

>Farrukh,
>
>The ebMS support was there for historical reasons.
>  
>
This only adds to the argument it should be taken out IMO.  The reason 
we architected  it in was a realization that we needed at least one 
common message protocol for all components in order to facilitate 
communication (lowest common denominator). This was done before SOAP 
matured.

As someone who has worked on various registry implementations, I have 
only once come across one set of requirements that concluded eb MS was 
the right answer.  This was before the WS-I's Basic Profile and Basic 
Security Profile were done.  If I were writing the architecture again 
today, I would favor using those for a variety of reasons.

ebXML MS is simply too heavy weight IMO.  A lot of people talk about 
convergence, but I feel that we actually need both eb MS and SOAP.  SOAP 
is ideal and well thought out for use cases like communicating with the 
registry while the eb MS is better suited for long running 
collaborations and processes. Right tool for the right job etc..

Anyways - if we don't have it in the specification, it doesn't preclude 
someone from adding it on themselves.  The hooks are there in the 
FreebXML registry to do this at a later date.

Duane

>As we have shown in the XML2004 Interop - using
>ebMS and Registry together with the http-binding works
>beautifully to provide integration with ebMS and Registry
>services and enterprise level messaging delivery controlled
>by CPA.
>
>Perhaps we can add a diagram showing this use case
>as a way to illustrate using ebMS with Registry in future
>and explain why a direct interface to registry is therefore
>redundant.  There's some sample diagrams in the
>Interop PPT that could be adapted for this.
>
>Persons wanting to route registry content thru ebMS
>can obviously place content directly onto an ebMS
>server outbound queue for delivery that way - such
>as output from registry an event handler(s).
>
>One question though - what about large federated
>queries that are possibly asynchronous?  Is there still
>a case for sending these via the more formal mechanisms
>that ebMS provides?    The use case above though I think
>could be extended through a query handler to provide
>support for this too...
>
>Thanks, DW
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Duane Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>
>To: "Farrukh Najmi" <Farrukh.Najmi@Sun.COM>
>Cc: <regrep@lists.oasis-open.org>
>Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 12:00 PM
>Subject: Re: [regrep] Proposed changes to ebMS Binding and HTTP Binding
>
>
>  
>
>>I fully support it.  It makes sense.
>>
>>Duane
>>
>>Farrukh Najmi wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Here is a breath of fresh air. I am for once proposing reducing scope
>>>instead of increasing it for 3.0 specs :-)
>>>
>>>1. Based on implementation experience I think we should drop the ebMS
>>>binding from the RS spec for the following reasons:
>>>
>>>-It is out of date and underspecified. In its current form of
>>>specificity and accuracy it is unimplementable.
>>>
>>>-It would take major work to align it with ebMS 3.0 and define
>>>template CPAs for registry and client
>>>
>>>2. Based on implementation experience I think we should drop bindings
>>>for all registry protocol methods that require HTTP POST from ebRS for
>>>the following reasons:
>>>
>>>-Sending protocol messages over HTTP POST without SOAP is pointless
>>>since we need to duplicate functionality of the SOAP Header. This is
>>>very non-standard in other similar specifications.
>>>
>>>-SOAP Binding is already supporting any such protocol messages over
>>>HTTP POST
>>>
>>>-It is not good to have two similar but different ways of implementing
>>>the same protocol
>>>
>>>Note that one side effect of (2) is that we can now remove the
>>>SignatureList element from RegistryRequestType and
>>>RegistryResponseType since they were there to carry signatures when
>>>there was no SOAP envelope (totally non-standard practice).
>>>
>>>I have discussed this with Matt who is an expert on both issues and he
>>>supported my proposal.
>>>
>>>Does any one have any objections to above proposals (1) and (2)?
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>-- 
>>***********
>>Senior Standards Strategist - Adobe Systems, Inc. - http://www.adobe.com
>>Vice Chair - UN/CEFACT Bureau Plenary - http://www.unece.org/cefact/
>>Chair - OASIS eb SOA TC -
>>    
>>
>http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=ebsoa
>  
>
>>***********
>>
>>
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>>    
>>
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>  
>
>>    
>>
>
>
>  
>

-- 
***********
Senior Standards Strategist - Adobe Systems, Inc. - http://www.adobe.com
Vice Chair - UN/CEFACT Bureau Plenary - http://www.unece.org/cefact/
Chair - OASIS eb SOA TC - http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=ebsoa
***********



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