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Subject: RE: [saml-dev] ConfirmationData?


Sounds good.  I certainly don't see a requirement for the check, but it is good to flesh these issues out ahead of the local interoperability events.
 
Hal is our local guru on the development of the specifications -- I'm only looking at the completed document, which must stand on its own.  It is confusing to require a ConfirmationMethod, but not require or provide any useful data to process a confirmation.  Looking at the mailing list archive, it seems that consensus on this text formed only recently.  Perhaps that is the reason for the confusion over this issue.
 
Ryan
-----Original Message-----
From: Mishra, Prateek [mailto:pmishra@netegrity.com]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 5:17 PM
To: 'Ryan Eberhard'; Mishra, Prateek; 'Charles Knouse'; Bhavna.Bhatnagar@Sun.COM; Philpott, Robert
Cc: saml-dev@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [saml-dev] ConfirmationData?

 
 
Yes, I see the distinction.  However, I was trying to point out that the requirement for the ConfirmationMethod already invalidates that there is no relationship between artifact and assertion in that the assertion must specify that an assertion was used.
[Prateek Mishra] In a very weak sense, yes, the assertion indicates that it was acquired using the "artifact" protocol but nothing else. There is still no way that the assertion contents can be tied to a specific artifact value.
 
If you combine this with the beginning of section 5 of the bindings spec:
 
"The <SubjectConfirmation> element SHOULD be used by the Relying Party to confirm that the request or message came from the System Entity that corresponds to the Subject in the statement. The <ConfirmationMethod> indicates the specific method which the Relying Party should use to make this judgment."
[Prateek Mishra] 
 
Ryan,
 
only those elements that are required to be present ("MUST" in RFC2119-ese) can be explicitly checked for. The specific issue of SubjectConfirmationData in the artifact profile was discussed at some length on the list and can be found in the archives. We decided NOT to require its use for SAML artifact.  I am willing to accept that the issue could have been resolved in a different fashion. However, if you look at the threat model and analysis, you will see that there is no need for this information
 
I would simply say that at this point the specification does not require the use of SubjectConfirmationData for the artifact protocol.
 
The only way to do this for "artifact-01" would be if the artifact was present, presumably in the SubjectConfirmationData.  If the intent was to have the destination site confirm the assertion in another manner, the ConfirmationMethod of artifact-01 would not have been required.
 
[Prateek]
these are inferences or deductions. The specification as written does not require use of SubjectConfirmationData.
 
Ryan
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Mishra, Prateek [mailto:pmishra@netegrity.com]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 4:41 PM
To: 'Ryan Eberhard'; Mishra, Prateek; 'Charles Knouse'; Bhavna.Bhatnagar@Sun.COM; Philpott, Robert
Cc: saml-dev@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [saml-dev] ConfirmationData?

Ryan,
 
you are referring to ConfirmationMethod, which you correctly point out must be set to the
"artifact" URI.
 
Bhavna and Rob referred to SubjectConfirmationData, a different animal (element) altogether. Their question
was whether the SubjectConfirmationData should carry the corresponding artifact value. I don't think it should
and we do not include it as part of the assertion.
 
Part of the confusion here stems from similar sounding names: notice that the SubjectConfirmation element
has sub-elements ConfirmationMethod and SubjectConfirmationData. The former is required but not the latter.
 
 
- prateek 
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Eberhard [mailto:ryan.eberhard@entegrity.com]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 4:24 PM
To: 'Mishra, Prateek'; 'Charles Knouse'; Bhavna.Bhatnagar@Sun.COM; Philpott, Robert
Cc: saml-dev@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [saml-dev] ConfirmationData?

Prateek,
 
Page 17 of the bindings spec. establishes a relationship between the fact that an artifact was used and the assertion by requiring that the ConfirmationMethod of the SSO assertion be urn:oasis:names:tc:SAML:1.0:cm:artifact-01.
 
"The <saml:ConfirmationMethod> element of each assertion MUST be set to urn:oasis:names:tc:SAML:1.0:cm:artifact-01."
 
This isn't the same thing as a relationship between the specific artifact and assertion, but I think it's strong enough to invalidate that there is no relationship.
 
If this relationship isn't required, why is the ConfirmationMethod specified?
 
Ryan
-----Original Message-----
From: Mishra, Prateek [mailto:pmishra@netegrity.com]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 4:14 PM
To: 'Charles Knouse'; Bhavna.Bhatnagar@Sun.COM; Philpott, Robert
Cc: saml-dev@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [saml-dev] ConfirmationData?

Folks,
 
this is an issue. We do not use confirmation data, nor do we check for it in
the artifact case.
 
Nowhere in the artifact browser profile description is there a requirement that
ConfirmationData be used. Indeed, one key requirement in developing the artifact
profile was that there be NO relationship between the artifact and the assertion itself. By placing
the artifact in the assertion (as conf data) this requirement is violated (however weakly).
 
The relationship between the artifact and the assertion is established via bilateral authentication
between source and destination sites. There is no other relationship required.
 
- prateek
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Knouse [mailto:cknouse@oblix.com]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 3:18 PM
To: Bhavna.Bhatnagar@Sun.COM; Philpott, Robert
Cc: saml-dev@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [saml-dev] ConfirmationData?

The Oblix SAML implementation also expects the artifact confirmation data.
 
-- Charles
-----Original Message-----
From: Bhavna Bhatnagar [mailto:Bhavna.Bhatnagar@Sun.COM]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 12:16 PM
To: Philpott, Robert
Cc: saml-dev@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [saml-dev] ConfirmationData?

Yes, we at Sun need the SubjectConfirmaData to be the associated attifact string. The source site at our end checks  that the SubjectConformationData does
contain the artifact string sent out originally in the query to the destination's soap responder.

Bhavna
 

"Philpott, Robert" wrote:

The specs aren't really clear on this... Do folks expect to receive a ConfirmationData element containing the artifact as part of the SubjectConfirmation when using the Artifact-01 method? 

I've seen a sample assertion that did have it and one that didn't. 

I assume you would want it so the relying party could (if they so desire) verify the assertion statements are associated with a particular artifact-based request.

Thanks,

Rob Philpott

RSA Security Inc.

The Most Trusted Name in e-Security

Tel: 781-515-7115

Mobile617-510-0893

Fax: 781-515-7020

mailto:rphilpott@rsasecurity.com

-- 
________________________________________________________________________ 
Bhavna Bhatnagar                                Sun Microsystems Inc.            
Identity Management group        __o
Tel: 408-276-3591              _`\<,_   
                              (*)/ (*)
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