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Subject: RE: RSA Interop 2005 Guidelines

Title: RSA Interop 2005 Guidelines
Bob, nice job putting this together. Here are some comments on the use cases/guidelines.
1. General question for optional use case: Can we allow users to perform additional federations from an SP. I.e., after the user federates, login in again, and prior to or after they defederate, they can have the capability to re-federate with the defederated IDP or they can have the capability to federate with additional IDPs. Obviously this is something that we would take them thru. Similar to defederation, which is something that might be done after a user leaves the demo site, additional federations could be left up to each vendor.
2. Section 2.1 bullet 5. I'm not sure if this bullet is necessary (i.e., bullet 6 is enough). I.e., the use case is always from a solicited SP AuthnRequest and not initiated at the IDP.
3. Section 2.2 bullet 7. The text says "Initiate a redirect to...". I think you mean to say "Provide a link to..."
4. Section 2.2 bullet 8. We should discuss, for the federation case, when the user is required to log into the SP. I.e., this can be before the IDP login or after. Are we saying it's up to the SP or does it always have to be after the IDP login.
5. End of section 2.2. You added a possible requriement of displaying the xml documents that were exchanged. Do users really want to see this? Also, what are you thoughts on how this is presented (e.g., thru an external screen/log, or on the actual user browser screen)?
6. Section 3.1 first sentence. You say four, but I think you mean three (i.e., login, logout, and eAuth). I think that breakdown works the best. I think you should move section 4.2 after the logout discussion so it will be section 4.2. Then change sections 4.3 and 4.4 into 4.2.1 and 4.2.2. Basically following the same format/structure you defined in the summary section 3.1.
7. Section 3.1.3, item 2b. s/on the SP is/on the SP and is/
8. General comment on the optional use case. I beleive the SP should state which name id format it is requesting, i.e., x509 subj name or a persistent id. This is done via the NameIDPolicy element. This implies that the SP site, which lists the IDPs that support persistent identifiers, needs to be smart enough to distinguish between the 2 types of identifiers when calling and IDP. We had said this would be based on the user name. However, if the answer to (4) above is that the user logs into the IDP before the SP, then the SP does not know who the user is and therefore cannot be sure which NameIDPolicy to use. I'm proposing the SP has additional smarts in it (each vendor does this however they want) so that the IDP links on the SP site hare two-fold. There are links for the base case IDPs and links for the optional IDPs. Additionally, the eAuth use case always implies the base case IDPs, hence x509 Ssubject names.  Section 6, item 1, wording would be updated accordingly.
9. Section 3.2, item 4 and 5. I don't believe this requirement was mentioned on any call/email. I.e., obtaining user consent is up to each individual provider. I suppose these could be optional steps but they should not be required. I.e., when a user clicks on the IDP link at the SP, they are consentng to federation. The same goes for section 6 bullet 4.
10. Section 3.2, item 8. s/SP triggering/SP via the IDP triggering/  The idea being the user does another saml login at the IDP by initiating it at the SP (basically a repeat of your item 1). To me it seemed like the text in item 8 is suggesting that perhaps the user logs in at the SP. 
11. Section 3.2, item 9. s/on the web page/on the SP web page/
12. Section 4.1.2, item 3. s/of links to the SP resources/of SP resources/ ^ s//(URLs)/  The text suggest the links (actual URLs) are to the SP site when they are actually urls back to the IDP with some TARGET=xxx or RelayState=xxx query parameter.
13. Section 4.1.2, item 4. s/resource links and/resources and/
14. Section 4.2 (a question for Enspier). It's not clear to me how the eAuth site knows which IDP the user has selected. Are they using persistent cookie? I.e., I'm asking this to understand what can or cannot be done at the SP. I.e,. if we do the eAuth use case for a couple of SPs and then do the logout. Then a new user tries the demo, how does the eAuth portal know this is a new request (i.e., the user is no longer logged on to the intial IDP)? It would seem that the link back to the eAuth site would require a CCID=<idp entity id> parameter much like the one that is sent to the SP.  Section 4.2.2 mentions using cookies to avoid propagation (but I don't think this will work).
16. Section 5.1 item 1b. The Saml spec requires subject confirmation data, s/MUST NOT/MUST/   and the data should include recipient, notOnOrAfter, etc.....  In general I think you can remove section 3. This is just a restatement of what is mandatory in the saml spec. I.e., similar to saying you need to include an IssuerName, etc....
17. Along the lines of S3ction 5.2.1 item 1, an AuthnRequest should either not inlcude an RequestedAuthnContext element or should value this with run:...:Password.
18. Section 5.2.1, item 2 and section 7.1, item 3.  Why are there any restrictions at all on SubjectLocality? Shouldn't this just be up to the IDP.
19. Section 5.2.2, item 1. Is everyone ok, with the 3 attributes. It seems like using postal address (someone else suggested this attribute at a prior meeting) would add to the personalization features of the demo.
20. Section 8.1.1, bullet 1 and 3  AND  section 8.1.2 bullet 2. I thought we agreed that there would be one SP resource for each SP and each vendor would only have one IDP. So change the zero or more reference to there is one of these per vendor. Anything beyond one would complicate the eAuth site, the links necessary on each SP/IDP, etc...
21. Section 8.1.1, bullet 3. s/URL to the idp logon page/The SAML entity id of the IDP/  The entity id format is like a url but it is NOT a url and is not meant to be the idp login url.
22. Section 8.1.2 bullet 3. Actually remove the IDP entity id reference from 8.1.1 and move it here, note that this is a URL but an entity id only.
23. Section 8.1.2 bullet 1. For issuer name, is this a string for display purposes?
24. Section 8.1.4. I would say copy the list of vendors into A.2 as well. I.e., store the value for <Vendor> in the appendix so it's easy to retrieve. Also, in A.2 perhaps store the following data point: IDP-Basic, SP-Basic, IDP-Optional, SP-Optional to indicate which vendor is doing what. It would be really helpful to nail this down before the dry run.
25. Section 8.1.4, I would suggest sticking with the same password convention as the base case. I.e., the password is the same as the userid. It just makes things easier I think.
26. Section 9.2.2 bullet 5 s/qill/will/
27. Section A.2 and 8.1.1. The additional URLs that are necesary (in A.2 and in 8.1.1) include:
- SingleSignOnService (at IDP for base and optional case)
- AssertionConsumerService (at SP for base and optional case)
- SingleLogoutService (request) (at IDP and SP for base and optional case)
- SingleLogoutService (response) (at IDP and SP for base and optional case)
- ManageNameIDService (request) (at IDP and SP for optional case only)
- ManageNameIDService (response) (at IDP and SP for optional case only)
28. Section A.2 and 8.1.2. The additional identifiers that are necessary (in A.2 and in 8.1.2) include:
- SP entity id (simliar to idp entity id).
- Receiver Name (similar to the idp issuer name). I.e., a display name for the SP.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ciochon, Robert [mailto:Robert.Ciochon@ca.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 3:17 PM
To: samldemotech
Subject: RSA Interop 2005 Guidelines

Attached is the first cut at defining the guidelines and use cases for the SAML Interop at RSA 2005.  Please send me any feedback, questions, clarifications, etc...


Robert Ciochon
eTrust Development Manager
Computer Associates
San Diego, California
(858) 625-6866

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