- DRAFT -

SCA-Assembly TC Teleconference

20 JAN 2009

Attendees

Present

Michael Rowley	Active Endpoints, Inc.	Group Member
fred carter	AmberPoint	Group Member
Mark Combellack	Avaya, Inc.	Group Member
Robert Freund	Hitachi, Ltd.	Group Member
Eric Wells	Hitachi, Ltd.	Group Member
Bryan Aupperle	IBM	Group Member
David Booz	IBM	Group Member
Graham Charters	IBM	Group Member
Mike Edwards	IBM	Group Member
Simon Holdsworth	IBM	Group Member
Dieter Koenig	IBM	Group Member
Jim Marino	Individual	Group Member
Simon Nash	Individual	Group Member
Jeff Estefan	Jet Propulsion Laboratory:*	Group Member
Martin Chapman	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Anish Karmarkar	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Ashok Malhotra	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Sanjay Patil	SAP AG*	Group Member
Plamen Pavlov	SAP AG*	Group Member
Peter Walker	Sun Microsystems	Group Member
Sabin Ielceanu	TIBCO Software Inc.	Group Member
Scott Vorthmann	TIBCO Software Inc.	Group Member

Chairs

Martin Chapman
Mike Edwards

Scribe

Bob Freund

Agenda:

1. Opening

Introductions
Roll call
Scribe confirmation
Agenda bashing

2. Approval of minutes of SCA-Assembly TC meeting of 6th January
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/30754/SCA%20Assembly%20minutes%202009-01-13.pdf

3. Action Items:

id=2008-12-16-2 status=pending Editors to review issues with hyperlinks in PDF versions; perhaps the package used to generate the PDF might need to be carefully selected
id=2008-12-16-3 status=pending Edwards to generate a proposal on Assembly-34
id=2008-12-16-4 status=pending Vorthmann to produce precise text for the resolution of Assembly-37 consistent with the previous directional decision
id=2009-01-06-1 status=pending Edwards to require an update to ASM005026 to deal with binding on implementation type
id=2009-01-06-2 status=DONE Edwards to raise an issue dealing with the conflict in muliplicity on line 1447 of revision 8 of the spec
id=2009-01-06-3 status=pending Nash to prepare resolution text for Assembly-95
id=2009-01-06-4 status=pending Omnis to review open issues and decide to volunteer to create proposals
id=2009-01-13-1 status=pending Martin C to raise an issue for a proposal of the definition of an SCA runtime

4. TC Administrivia

Assembly F2F Meeting -
Jan 26/27 Assembly 28/29 Policy
Oracle Conference Center, Bay Area

5. Conformance & Test

Latest Test Assertions document:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly-testing/download.php/30744/SCA_Assembly_TestCases_09.odt
Latest Testcase document:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly-testing/download.php/30622/SCA_Assembly_TestCases_05.odt
Testcase artifacts:
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/tuscany/java/sca/stest/sampleTest/src/

6. Existing Issues with Proposals

ASSEMBLY-94 Remove Conversational interfaces functionality
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-94

Lot of debate on the email list - too long to list it all here

ASSEMBLY-98: Conformance Assertion [ASM50012] is invalid
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-98

ASSEMBLY-90: Clarify @promote in the context of composite includes
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-90

Proposal:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200811/msg00061.html

7. New Issues

ASSEMBLY-100 Defintion of Composite Reference Multiplicity contains conflicting information
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-100

ASSEMBLY-101 Complete the Conformance Section
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-101

ASSEMBLY-102 ASM60008 is a duplicate of ASM60012, ASM60013
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-102

ASSEMBLY-103 SCA Specification is missing XSD for and Conformance statements relating to and
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-103

8. Existing Issues without Proposals

ASSEMBLY-34: Define error handling
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-34

ASSEMBLY-37 Need to clarify contents of an SCA Domain virtual composite
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-37

Latest proposal:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200811/msg00024.html

ASSEMBLY-95 "wiredByImpl" is an invalid attribute for a Composite Reference
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-95

ASSEMBLY-46: Dynamic Aspects of the Domain not adequately described in the Assembly Specification
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-46

ASSEMBLY-86: Abstract CRUD APIs for definitions infoset
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-86

ASSEMBLY-87: A single definitions infoset is not sufficient
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-87

ASSEMBLY-80: Create an Event Processing Model for SCA
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-80

ASSEMBLY-2: use of UML 2.0
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-2

ASSEMBLY-91: Details needed for sca:ConversationViolation
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-91

ASSEMBLY-97 Need Assembly level definition for "AllowsPassByReference"
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-97

8. Issue Status
17 Open Issues
x openedx resolved

Minutes

Scribe: Bob Freund

Opening:

Roll Quorate with 19 of 25 voting members present

Agenda - Agreed

Resolution: Minutes of 2009-01-13 accepted w/o

Action Items

Action: id=2008-12-16-2 status=done Editors to review issues with hyperlinks in PDF versions; perhaps the package used to generate the PDF might need to be carefully selected

Action: id=2008-12-16-3 status=done Edwards to generate a proposal on Assembly-34

Action: id=2008-12-16-4 status=pending Vorthmann to produce precise text for the resolution of Assembly-37 consistent with the previous directional decision

Action: id=2009-01-06-1 status=pending Edwards to require an update to ASM005026 to deal with binding on implementation type

Action: id=2009-01-06-2 status=done Edwards to raise an issue dealing with the conflict in muliplicity on line 1447 of revision 8 of the spec

Action: id=2009-01-06-3 status=done Nash to prepare resolution text for Assembly-95

Action: id=2009-01-06-4 status=pending Omnis to review open issues and decide to volunteer to create proposals

Action: id=2009-01-13-1 status=done Martin C to raise an issue for a proposal of the definition of an SCA runtime

TC Administrivia

Agenda will be published in the next couple of days

Conformance and Test

Edwards:

Reminds folks to review the test documents and artifacts

...and to participate in the test calls

Existing Issues

ASSEMBLY-94 Reremove Conversational interfaces functionality http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-94

Edwards:

There are two alternate proposals, one to accept the proposal in the Jira, the other to do nothing

Motion: m:Rowley s:Marino Support conversational interfaces an optional conformance point in the specification

Rowley speaks in favor of the motion

He asserts that it is both implementable and desired by users and that the market will speak to influence vendors

Chapman:

Whether it is optional or not, the spec needs improvement since the semantics in the current spec are unclear; optionality is an orthogonal issue

Rowley:

I believe the issues have been raised during the discussions on this issue. Those issues can be resolved.

Marino:

I think that the issues have been addressed in the email discussion.

Booz:

I think that we need something different than the model in the spec. I think we need a true shared context model.

Rowley:

I believe that the current programming model, particularly the ability to mark an interface as conversational, it is part of, but perhaps not the only part needed for a shared context model. I am not sure where the current spec falls short.

...If you are thinking of a third party coordinator to support a shared context model, there are precedents but there are also approaches that do not require it.

...Microsoft WCF supports a facility that supports conversational capabilities.

Nash:

The only implementations that support this conversational model is Java so far.

...Assembly does not go far enough to lay down prescriptive semantics in enough detail to assure interoperability

...the current spec provides a level of complexity and difficulty that makes it tough to deal with.

Rowley:

Active endpoints does support conversational services and is an existence proof that conversational services can be done successfully beyond just Java

Nash:

My concerns were more around the point of interoperability. I think there is not enough in the spec to assure that interoperability.

Marino:

In terms of complexity, I think that we need to get down to specifics. End User feedback indicates that the model is simple and easy to use.

...If there are specific points where it is unclear, I have addressed those in email, and would appreciate further discussion if any of those remain unclear.

Karmarkar:

I think we are better off keeping conversational support out for now and leave it to a future version.

Motion: m:Karmarkar s:Booz Amendment by replacement "Move support for conversational interfaces to a future version of SCA-Assembly"

Karmarkar:

My intention was to resolve the issue with this motion

Rowley:

Urges members to defeat the amendment so that the motion on optionality may be decided.

Marino:

Could the issues be enumerated

Walker calls the question

There were no objections to calling the question

Vote underway on the motion to amend by replacement

results on the motion to amend by replacement; Aye-18 ;Nay-3 ;Abstain-2

Motion: (as amended) Move support for conversational interfaces to a future version of SCA-Assembly

Motion: to amend m:Nash s:Aupperle add the words "and resolve the issue"

nobody speaks against the amendment

Motion: (as amended) Move support for conversational interfaces to a future version of SCA-Assembly and resolve the issue.

Issue Title: Add Support for Conversational Services

Issue Body: Based on the support of conversational services present in SCA 1.0.

<anish>

needs to say 'future version' in the title/body

Motion: to amend add the following to the motion " Open an new issue of the title ' Add Support for Conversational Services' and a body containing 'Based on the support of conversational services present in SCA 1.0'.

(anish's comment) since we are doing this as a "super-motion", I think that does make sense

Motion: m:Rowley s:Booz (to amend) add the following to the motion " Open an new issue of the title ' Add Support for Conversational Services' and a body containing 'Based on the support of conversational services present in SCA 1.0'.

<anish>

we can have this motion fail

<anish>

and then make another one with the right words

nobody votes in favor of the motion

Motion: m:Rowley s:Vorthmann (to amend) add the following to the motion " Open an new issue of the title ' Add Support for Conversational Services in a future version' and a body containing 'Based on the support of conversational services present in SCA 1.0'.

Amendment passes without objection

Motion: (as amended) Move support for conversational interfaces to a future version of SCA-Assembly and resolve the issue. Open an new issue of the title ' Add Support for Conversational Services in a future version' and a body containing 'Based on the support of conversational services present in SCA 1.0'.

world is going to end in 2012

<anish>

i think 'future' allows the TC to decide exactly which version it should go in

<anish>

at a later point in time

Vote on the motion underway

result of the vote on the main motion as amended aye-19 ; nay-2 ; abstain-1

Resolution: Resolve Assembly-94 as follows: Move support for conversational interfaces to a future version of SCA-Assembly and resolve the issue. Open an new issue of the title ' Add Support for Conversational Services in a future version' and a body containing 'Based on the support of conversational services present in SCA 1.0'.

Action: Edwards to spread the news of the resolution of Assembly-94 to the other TCs in the member section

ASSEMBLY-98: Conformance Assertion [ASM50012] is invalid http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-98

<anish>

Proposal:

Change conformance assertion [ASM50012] to read as follows:

"If no binding elements are specified for the reference, then the bindings specified for the
equivalent reference in the componentType of the implementation MUST be used. If binding
elements are specified for the reference, then those bindings MUST be used and they
override any bindings specified for the equivalent reference in the componentType of the
implementation. [ASM50012]"

Add the following explanatory words following [ASM50012]:

"It is valid for there to be no binding elements on the component reference and none on the
reference in the componentType - the binding used for such a reference is determined bythe target service"

Motion: m:Freund s:Booz Resolve Assembly-98 with the proposal in the Jira

Motion: to amend by adding "and to add a cross-reference editorially"

amendment accepted w/o

Resolution: Resolve Assembly-98 with the proposal in the Jira and to add a cross-reference editorially w/o

Meeting adjourned due to press of time

<EricW>

We didn't take a straggler role - please add me as I spoke on the votes

Schreiber diagnostics output

[Delete this section before publishing the minutes]

final validation: Chair not specified, default chair was assumed

statistics: Schreiber found 87 input lines

edits: Schreiber found the following text-edit commands:

edits: Line 79: s/move/remove/

edits: Line 85: s/to decide/on

edits: Line 143: s/:/:

edits: Line 152: s/Jiraand/Jira and

command-scribe: Line 4: Bob Freund is recognized

command-scribe: Line 4: Bob Freund's nick Bob has been selected

edit-substitute: command on line 79 succeeded, changed line 29 from 'move' to 'remove'

edit-delete: Line 79 was deleted

edit-substitute: command on line 85 succeeded, changed line 84 from 'to decide' to 'on'

edit-delete: Line 85 was deleted

edit-substitute: command on line 143 succeeded, changed line 142 from ':' to ':'

edit-delete: Line 143 was deleted

edit-substitute: command on line 152 succeeded, changed line 151 from 'Jiraand' to 'Jira and'

edit-delete: Line 152 was deleted

command-oasisroll: Line 155: Attempting to fetch roll from http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/event.php?event_id=16075

system: Transformer: SAXON 9.0.0.6

[End of Schreiber diagnostic output]

sca-assembly message

- DRAFT -

SCA-Assembly TC Teleconference

20 JAN 2009

Attendees

Present

Chairs

Scribe

Agenda:

Contents

Action Items

Resolutions

Minutes

Opening:

Action Items

TC Administrivia

Conformance and Test

Existing Issues

ASSEMBLY-94 Reremove Conversational interfaces functionality http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-94

ASSEMBLY-98: Conformance Assertion [ASM50012] is invalid http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-98

Schreiber diagnostics output