- DRAFT -

OASIS SCA-Assembly TC

08 SEP 2009 - 09 SEP 2009

Attendees

Present

Mark Combellack	Avaya, Inc.	Group Member
Dale Moberg	Axway Software*	Group Member
Eric Wells	Hitachi, Ltd.	Group Member
Bryan Aupperle	IBM	Group Member
David Booz	IBM	Group Member
Graham Charters	IBM	Group Member
Mike Edwards	IBM	Group Member
Diane Jordan	IBM	Group Member
Mike Kaiser	IBM	Group Member
Dieter Koenig	IBM	Group Member
Peter Niblett	IBM	Group Member
Jim Marino	Individual	Group Member
Simon Nash	Individual	Group Member
Jeff Estefan	Jet Propulsion Laboratory:*	Group Member
Martin Chapman	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Tim Gleason	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Khanderao Kand	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Anish Karmarkar	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Rich Levinson	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Ashok Malhotra	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Jonathan Maron	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Gilbert Pilz	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Aninda Sengupta	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Clemens Utschig - Utschig	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
John Wilmes	Progress Software	Group Member
Sanjay Patil	SAP AG*	Group Member
Plamen Pavlov	SAP AG*	Group Member
Pradeep Simha	Tibco	Guest
Murty Gurajada	TIBCO Software Inc.	Group Member
Sabin Ielceanu	TIBCO Software Inc.	Group Member
Danny van der Rijn	TIBCO Software Inc.	Group Member
Scott Vorthmann	TIBCO Software Inc.	Group Member

Chairs

Martin Chapman
Mike Edwards

Scribe

Eric Wells

Agenda:

Introductions
Roll call
Scribe confirmation
Agenda bashing

2. Approval of minutes of previous SCA-Assembly TC meeting
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/34009/SCA%20Assembly%20minutes%202009-08-25.html

3. Action Items:

4. TC Administrivia

a) 1st Public Review of the Assembly Model spec ended June 23

Public comments list:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly-comment/

b) Looking for Proposals for all open issues - see Item 8 of this agenda

5. Test Assertions and TestCases

Public Review started on Aug 18 and is due to end on Oct 17.

6. Existing Issues with Proposals

ASSEMBLY 147: Assembly Specification does not define the Component Type of a Composite used as an Implementation
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-147

Updated proposal:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200909/msg00142.html
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/34083/sca-assembly-1.1-spec-cd03%2BIssue_147a.pdf
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/34082/sca-assembly-1.1-spec-cd03%2BIssue_147a.doc

7. Test Suite Open Issues

ASSEMBLY 159: Align Test Assertion Document with latest Draft Assembly Spec
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-159

ASSEMBLY 165: Poor wording in descriptions of TestCases ASM_8009 & ASM_8018
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-165

Proposal is in JIRA

ASSEMBLY 166: Test_ASM_9003.composite contains an incorrect Web service URI
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-166

Proposal is in JIRA

ASSEMBLY 167: TestComposite63.composite contains an incorrect name
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-167

Proposal is in JIRA

ASSEMBLY 168: Errors in ASM_12013_TestCase artifacts
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-168

Proposal is in JIRA

ASSEMBLY 169: Errors in Artifacts for ASM_12005_TestCase
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-169

Proposal is in JIRA

ASSEMBLY 170: Errors in Artifacts for a set of testcases in ASM_120xx range
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-170

Proposal is in JIRA

ASSEMBLY 171: Problems with artifacts for a set of the TestCases for SCA Assembly
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-171

Proposal is in JIRA

ASSEMBLY 172: ASM-TA-5031 is not adequately tested by any TestCase in the Test Suite
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-172

ASSEMBLY 173: Errors in Test Artifacts for ASM_6022, ASM_5032, ASM_5016
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-173

Proposal is in JIRA

ASSEMBLY 174: TestCase ASM_8006 contains invalid artifacts, which should be placed into a separate Contribution
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-174

Proposal is in JIRA

ASSEMBLY 175: Current Schema for Properties does not support value attribute- [ASM50027]
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-175

Proposal is in JIRA

8. New Issues

ASSEMBLY 177: SCA Assembly XSD extensibility is broken if new implementation or binding types are added from other namespaces than the SCA one
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-177

ASSEMBLY 178: multiplicity is too complex
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-178

ASSEMBLY 179: Layout of Test Suite Artifacts is not suitable for Build Systems and Tools
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-179

ASSEMBLY 180: Composite ref pseudo schema doesn't agree with XML schema definitions - @autowire
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-180

ASSEMBLY 181: Handling of promoted and elements containing subelements is not described
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-181

9. Existing Issues without proposals

ASSEMBLY-132: Microsoft technical comment about the SCA Assembly Model specification #1
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-132

ASSEMBLY-149: Few comments from Siemens
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-149

ASSEMBLY 138: Assembly specification unclear on Contribution vs Deployment - when can errors in artifacts be reported?
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-138

ASSEMBLY 139: What is a constrainingType file supposed to look like?
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-139

ASSEMBLY 140: Need TAs and testcases for property/@file and property/@many=true
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-140

ASSEMBLY 142: Need a normative statement for @autowire inheritance
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-142

ASSEMBLY 143: There are no conformance statements in section 8.5 (CD03)
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-143

ASSEMBLY 145: Unmarked MUST on line 1030 (CD03)
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-145

ASSEMBLY-157: Make support for constrainingType an optional compliance point
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-157

ASSEMBLY 158: Composite property example contradicts spec definition
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-158

ASSEMBLY 80: Create an Event Processing Model for SCA
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-80

Directional proposal is in this email:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200906/msg00129.html

Agenda:

1. Pub/sub discussion

The following may be useful links...

Scott Vorthmann: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/email/archives/200909/msg00166.html

Jeff Estefan: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/email/archives/200909/msg00136.html

Martin C: FAQ: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/email/archives/200909/msg00135.html

Mike Edwards:http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/email/archives/200909/msg00120.html

Jim Marino/MC Exchange: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/email/archives/200909/msg00119.html

2. AOB

Minutes

Scribe: Eric Wells

Introduction

Roll call 19/27 - 70%

Link to previous meeting minutes:

http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/34080/SCA%20Assembly%20minutes%202009-09-01.html

Resolution: Minutes of 2009-09-01 accepted w/o

Action Items - None

Administrivia

Some outstanding comments on Test suite the need to be addressed

Note that todays meeting will recess and continue tomorrow at 12:00PM EDT / 9:00AM PDT

Existing Issues

ASSEMBLY 147: Assembly Specification does not define the Component Type of a Composite used as an Implementation
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-147

Updated proposal:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200909/msg00142.html
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/34083/sca-assembly-1.1-spec-cd03%2BIssue_147a.pdf
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/34082/sca-assembly-1.1-spec-cd03%2BIssue_147a.doc

MikeE:

Describes new proposal

...autowire is addressed by other issue so left out of this proposal

...all changes in section 5.5.1

SimonN:

Many bullets of form "if (this) then ..." but does not say if condition is not true

...better to be explicit about alternatives

SimonN:

Interfaces may be derived form component type and may be no explicit XML - wording should make clear that it is the "logical" interface that is being referred to

AnishK:

Concerns regarding intents from component types

MikeE:

Have attempted to refer values of requires, etc attributes to Policy spec to get correct inheritance

...agrees that wording "value of attribute" should be changed to use "value applied" to indicate value needs computing as per Policy spec inheritance rules, etc

SimonN:

Situation where there's an implicit wired by impl that needs to be covered

...multiplicity 1..1, internal target, non-overridable

MikeE:

Think this is a new issue

MikeE:

Inheritance of callbacks not cover in existing spec - new issue ASSEMBLY-181

SimonN:

Bindings for composite references need to be stripped out when promoted

Proposal needs more work - Simon N will E-mail his use case for discussion

Test Suite Issues

ASSEMBLY 165: Poor wording in descriptions of TestCases ASM_8009 & ASM_8018
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-165

MikeE:

Proposal (in JIRA) to change wording

SimonN:

ASM_8018 seems redundant

...Same test but ASM_8009 is Service or Reference - ASM_8018 is Service only

MikeE:

Need to look at more carefully - there should not be any redundant tests

DaveB:

Wording for ASM_8009 seems awkward/wrong

Further discussion

New Issues

ASSEMBLY 178: multiplicity is too complex
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-178

DaveB:

AI from ASSEMBLY-136

DaveB:

Summarizes concerns regarding multiplicity

Martin C:

Is this issue specific enough if there's so many problems?

DaveB:

Just to capture all the previous discussions

Motion: m=Dave B s=Simon N Open issue ASSEMBLY-178

Resolution: ASSEMBLY-178 opened w/o

ASSEMBLY 177: SCA Assembly XSD extensibility is broken if new implementation or binding types are added from other namespaces than the SCA one
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-177

MikeE:

From comments during internal testing

...describes issue - no proposal the works for bindings but needs addressing

Motion: Open ASSEMBLY-177 m=Danny V s=Mike E

Resolution: Issue ASSEMBLY-177 opened w/o

ASSEMBLY 179: Layout of Test Suite Artifacts is not suitable for Build Systems and Tools
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-179

MikeE:

Summarizes issue regarding Test suite layout - problems with using tools

Motion: Open issue ASSEMBLY-179 m=Mike E s=Simon N

Resolution: Issue ASSEMBLY-179 opened w/o

AOB

Straggler Role: Sanjay

Issues summary: Opened: 3 Closed: 0

Meeting RECESSED at 9:01AM PDT

Scribe: Eric Wells

Opening

Resumption of session from 2009-09-08

Roll call - Additional attendees

Roll - (inc Tues session) 25/28 = 89% Quorate

Agenda accepted w/o

Pub/sub discussion

Why is existing model not sufficient?

Martin C:

Anyone think that NO CHANGES AT ALL are needed to cover eventing or pub/sub

SimonN:

Just use existing extension points?

...e.g. implementation.channel - create "standard" extensions

a channel is NOT a component that one implements ..

as the current proposal suggests - it's just there

ScottV:

OSOA considered that model but value in adding specifc model

...look at SCA from message exchange POV c.f. wiring between components, etc

...interface concept in WSDL could be used

AnishK:

Don't need to change existing model - need to add/extend model

the trouble is wsdl has certain assupmtions about it, and if we change the assumptions we are in effect changing wsdl

correct ..

a wsdl implies 2 thigns

a semantics of a SERVICE, that is an invocation (with an action ./ op), some binding and some shape

first and second are certainly not events .. and EVENT is a state change, that only has a shape, and that's it.

AnishK:

Problems when some additional features needed - e.g. filters - can only be handled as special cases

AnishK:

Detailed summary of OSOA considerations as to why existing model insufficient

...COULD be used but a bit like "fitting square peg in round hole" after all necessary tweaks & mods

PeterN:

Agrees and notes MxN connectivity problems if using wires to connect pub/sub

...also notes that event handling and pub/sub are not the same

I'd like to squeak for attendance once Scott finishes...

ScottV:

Some metadata needed for assembler to assemble components - but thinks WSDL could be tweaked

I also suggested we look at the additional capabilities that we need to be able to express in the assembly model, before getting too far into the detail of how it's expressed

AnishK:

Want to avoid developer having to itterate over array of subscribers

ScottV:

Agrees and notes that Tibco never uses multiplicity of 0..n or 1..n

ClemensU:

What is the role of an Assembler in a pub/sub model?

...obviously needed for service/reference wiring but events are not "wired"

Ansih's point is the one I tried to make.. the grouping of event types into an "interface" has the opposite meaning in events than it does for services

Martin C:

Many assuptions in WSDL that don't apply to eventing and also have to cover other things like Java

in standard service invocation the requestor is interested in a subset of the message types supported by the server (and the server has to support them all). In events the consumer might only be interested in a subset of the message types supported by the producer (but the producer supports them all)

...using WSDL (or other) in a manner different from common usage is something we need to avoid

so this causes a problem if you equate consumer to service and producer to requestor

SimonN:

Current OSOA spec implies that there will be a channel between pub and sub

...therefor only need multiplicity 0..1 or 1..1 from pub -> channel and channel -> sub

<anish>

wsdl 2.0 is much better from a model POV compared to wsdl 1.1, but there is almost zero uptake of wsdl 2.0

ScottV:

Wants to isolate Assembler and Developer views of things

...Assembler should not have to think in terms of development model (Java, etc)

...BUT Developer should not have to think in terms of Assemblers view (WSDL, etc).

JimM:

Use a special binding as opposed to implementation?

AnishK:

More problems if using binding than if using implementations

...Also any sort of wiring requires components to be aware of each other (to some extent) - should be avoided

I think that this discussion is the central debate about Event Processing

<anish>

indeed

Martin C:

Summarizing

it was the debate that took place in the original OSOA discussions

<anish>

it took a f2f to hammer things out and get agreement

and it is good to ensure that everyone hears them and contributes to them here in OASI

<anish>

i'm wondering if this needs a f2f. i know times are difficult

<anish>

so, perhaps maybe extended calls as done in other TCs

eric its the same roll url as yesterday

You might like to suggest that on the mailing list Anish

let's gauge how restricted people are wrt travelling

<anish>

ok, will do that

Action: Provide summary of discussion and tentative agreements owner=Martin C

AOB

None

Adjorned 10:01 PDT

and thanks eric for scribing past two days

Eric - big thanks

Schreiber diagnostics output

[Delete this section before publishing the minutes]

final validation: Title not specified, default title 'OASIS SCA-Assembly TC...' was assumed

final validation: Chair not specified, default chair was assumed

statistics: Schreiber found 129 input lines

edits: Schreiber found the following text-edit commands:

edits: Line 16: s/Andmin/Admin/

edits: Line 52: s/form/from/

command-scribe: Line 3: Eric Wells is recognized

command-scribe: Line 3: Eric Wells's nick EricW has been selected

edit-substitute: command on line 16 succeeded, changed line 14 from 'Andmin' to 'Admin'

edit-delete: Line 16 was deleted

citation-detection-scribed: Line 17: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'Note that todays meeting will recess and continue tomorrow at 12'

citation-detection-scribed: Line 19: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'ASSEMBLY 147'

citation-detection-scribed: Line 42: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'ASSEMBLY 165'

citation-detection-scribed: Line 50: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'ASSEMBLY 178'

edit-substitute: command on line 52 succeeded, changed line 51 from 'form' to 'from'

edit-delete: Line 52 was deleted

citation-detection-scribed: Line 60: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'ASSEMBLY 177'

citation-detection-scribed: Line 65: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'ASSEMBLY 179'

citation-detection-scribed: Line 72: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'Straggler Role'

citation-detection-scribed: Line 73: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'Issues summary'

citation-detection-scribed: Line 76: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'Meeting RECESSED at 9'

command-scribe: Line 79: Eric Wells is recognized

command-scribe: Line 79: Eric Wells's nick EricW has been selected

citation-detection-scribed: Line 180: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'Adjorned 10'

command-autoroll/oasis: Line 183: Attempting to fetch roll from http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/event.php?event_id=16108

command-autoroll/oasis: Line 183: Successfully fetched roll from http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/event.php?event_id=16108

system: Transformer: SAXON 9.1.0.7

[End of Schreiber diagnostic output]

sca-assembly message

- DRAFT -

OASIS SCA-Assembly TC

08 SEP 2009 - 09 SEP 2009

Attendees

Present

Chairs

Scribe

Agenda:

Agenda:

Contents

Action Items

Resolutions

Minutes

Introduction

Administrivia

Existing Issues

Test Suite Issues

New Issues

AOB

Opening

Pub/sub discussion

AOB

Schreiber diagnostics output