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Subject: RE: [sca-assembly] NEW ISSUE: Need some notion of "callback" addressin conjunction with eventing


Maybe I misunderstood the requirement, but I thought you were asking for a reply "event" to be sent to the reply-to destination given in the consumed event. Therefore no wiring needed to be done by the assembler.

Martin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Johnson [mailto:eric@tibco.com]
> Sent: 01 November 2010 20:00
> To: Martin Chapman
> Cc: Anish Karmarkar; sca-assembly@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [sca-assembly] NEW ISSUE: Need some notion of "callback"
> address in conjunction with eventing
> 
> Hi Martin,
> 
> Well, in the case of JMS, it has built in support for a "temporary"
> response channel.  Also, there's nothing that says that the reply goes
> back to a specific consumer on the specific component - it could very
> well go back to a different channel.
> 
> I don't understand your point about why the "reply-to" producer can't be
> connected to two different channels, or have an implied temporary
> response queue....
> 
> -Eric.
> 
> On 11/1/10 8:53 AM, Martin Chapman wrote:
> > I'm not arguing that it's not a good use case or trying to belittle JMS;-)
> > I think the point is I don't see what an assembler can do if a component
> has one of these "reply-to" producers. It cannot connect it to any channel,
> and I can't think of anything else that the assembler might want to do.
> >
> > Martin.
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Eric Johnson [mailto:eric@tibco.com]
> >> Sent: 29 October 2010 20:29
> >> To: Martin Chapman
> >> Cc: Anish Karmarkar; sca-assembly@lists.oasis-open.org
> >> Subject: Re: [sca-assembly] NEW ISSUE: Need some notion of "callback"
> >> address in conjunction with eventing
> >>
> >> Hi Martin,
> >>
> >> On 10/29/10 7:02 AM, Martin Chapman wrote:
> >>> Doesn't seem like something that needs addressing at  the SCA level. If
> >> any producer can include a "reply-to" then all consumer components need
> to
> >> be prepared to do something with it i.e. it's implicit that there may be
> >> production of "response" events.
> >>
> >> My trite response is that if you simply disregard this case, then anyone
> >> who wants to do anything with JMS that naturally maps onto the use of
> >> the JMSReplyTo message header, either cannot do it with SCA eventing, or
> >> can only do it with vendor specific extensions.  Both possibilities seem
> >> wrong to me.  JMS has been around a lot longer than SCA eventing, and if
> >> we cannot model appropriately around one of its key features.....
> >>
> >> For a more substantive response, I can refer back to the responses I
> >> sent Mike - there are a number of what I think are reasonable scenarios
> >> where trying to wire this in the current model doesn't work.
> >>
> >> Your point does make me wonder whether a consumer might flag that as
> >> part of an eventFilter that it may disallow reply-to information, or
> >> perhaps simply ignore it.
> >>
> >> I raised the issue because I think we've overlooked something important,
> >> however, I admit to not having all the answers, or having thought
> >> through all the implications.
> >>
> >> -Eric.
> >>
> >>> Martin.
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Eric Johnson [mailto:eric@tibco.com]
> >>>> Sent: 29 October 2010 00:52
> >>>> To: Anish Karmarkar
> >>>> Cc: sca-assembly@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>> Subject: Re: [sca-assembly] NEW ISSUE: Need some notion of "callback"
> >>>> address in conjunction with eventing
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Anish,
> >>>>
> >>>> On 10/28/10 4:41 PM, Anish Karmarkar wrote:
> >>>>> I think this could be done by using event message metadata (some kind
> >>>>> of reply-to header). I don't think there is anything in the current
> >>>>> model that prevents this (although there is no effort to standardize
> >>>>> event metadata). Are you suggesting standardization of metadata with
> >>>>> this issue?
> >>>>> On the part about consumer tied to an unwired producer, the consumer
> >>>>> is allowed to react to an event (or not) in any way it deems
> >>>>> appropriate (application logic) including invoking a one-way operation
> >>>>> on a service offered by the same component that produced the original
> >>>>> event, OR raising its own event (the original event may have enough
> >>>>> information about the channel binding and how to get to it). Why do we
> >>>>> need this tie-up? I can see this would be interesting if there was
> >>>>> some use of policy/binding injection on the responding producer.
> >>>> Sounds like you might be thinking about this one differently than I.
> My
> >>>> notion is that if a consumer receives a message with some sort of
> >>>> "reply-to" address on it, then how do we model that in SCA?  And how
> >>>> does that carry down into the implementation type?  Is this a notion of
> >>>> an "unbound" producer that get the information associated with the
> >>>> message delivered to the consumer, or is it a special "producer" object
> >>>> that arrives with the message on the consumer side?  I was thinking
> we'd
> >>>> model this as an actual "producer" on the component, but that somehow
> we
> >>>> have to flag that the producer is used specifically for sending to the
> >>>> "reply-to" address received when a message is consumed.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm not sure of the best way to make this work, I just raised the issue
> >>>> because I noticed we couldn't really address it with the current draft.
> >>>>
> >>>> -Eric.
> >>>>
> >>>>> We have disallowed bindings on producer/consumers and wrt policy -- I
> >>>>> know we haven't really decided on policy matching -- but this could
> >>>>> complicate, the already complicated, eventing policy issue further.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Anish
> >>>>> --
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 10/28/2010 4:11 PM, Eric Johnson wrote:
> >>>>>> Title: Need some notion of "callback" address in conjunction with
> >>>>>> eventing
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Target: Assembly 1.2 WD 01
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Description:
> >>>>>> For some uses of eventing, the point of using an event driven system
> is
> >>>>>> to decouple a collection of asynchronous interactions.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> For example component A sends a message to component B, and A directs
> B
> >>>>>> to send a response to component C.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> JMS, for example, includes the JMSReplyTo property. This allows for
> >>>>>> asynchronous communications, and allows for the sender to dictate
> where
> >>>>>> the response should go, eliminating any direct architectural coupling
> >> of
> >>>>>> the receiver with the sender.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> For the purposes of eventing in SCA, it is desirable on the
> "producer"
> >>>>>> side to send a message with a "reply" address pointing to some other
> >>>>>> consumer (or channel) on the component, or in the composite.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Likewise, on the consumer side, it may be useful to tie that consumer
> >> to
> >>>>>> an "unwired" producer, where that producer never gets wired to
> anything
> >>>>>> but rather sends to the destination received by the consumer.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Abstract proposal:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In the case of a producer expecting a "reply", change the "producer"
> on
> >>>>>> a component so that it includes something like a "@replyTo"
> attribute.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In the case of a producer sending a "reply", change the producer to
> >> have
> >>>>>> a "inReplyTo" attribute that names a particular consumer on the same
> >>>>>> component (@target attribute&   @replyTo attribute not allowed)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -Eric.
> >>>>>>
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