- DRAFT -

Oasis SCA-Assembly Teleconference

08 MAR 2011

Attendees

Present

Robert Freund	Hitachi, Ltd.	Group Member
Eric Wells	Hitachi, Ltd.	Group Member
Bryan Aupperle	IBM	Group Member
David Booz	IBM	Group Member
Mike Edwards	IBM	Group Member
Diane Jordan	IBM	Group Member
Mike Kaiser	IBM	Group Member
Peter Niblett	IBM	Group Member
Jim Marino	Individual	Group Member
Jeff Estefan	Jet Propulsion Laboratory	Group Member
Martin Chapman	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Anish Karmarkar	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Rich Levinson	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Ashok Malhotra	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Jeff Mischkinsky	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Sanjay Patil	SAP AG	Group Member
Plamen Pavlov	SAP AG	Group Member
Eric Johnson	TIBCO Software Inc.	Group Member
Danny van der Rijn	TIBCO Software Inc.	Group Member
Scott Vorthmann	TIBCO Software Inc.	Group Member

Chairs

Martin Chapman
Mike Edwards

Scribe

Eric Wells

Agenda:

1. Intro

Roll call
Scribe confirmation
Agenda bashing

2. Approval of minutes of previous SCA-Assembly TC meeting

http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/41375/SCA%20Assembly%20minutes%202011-03-01.html

3. Action Items

id=2010-09-22-8 status=pending owner="EricJ" produce new proposal for ASSEMBLY-227
id=2011-01-04-2 status=pending Edwards to write a new proposal for the resolution of Assembly-246 along the lines contained in wsra

4. TC Administrivia

None

5. Exit Criteria

The TC needs to adopt concrete exit criteria.

Discussion:
Lots of debate on the Assembly mailing list (too many emails to list !)

6. 1.2 Specification Open Issues (1.2)

ASSEMBLY-239: (1.2): Business data filter element needs better name, definition
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-239

Alternate proposals:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201102/msg00039.html

intention is to complete the activities that were under debate and vote at the end of last week's meeting

6. New Issues (1.2)

ASSEMBLY-257: Global domain channels creation inconsistent with pattern established by definitions.xml
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-257

ASSEMBLY-258: Section 11 of spec should be marked non-normative
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-258

ASSEMBLY-259: Some way to "late bind" references to global domain channels
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-259

7. 1.2 Specification Open Issues (1.2)

ASSEMBLY-253: Add Autocreation of Channels to SCA Assembly 1.2
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-253

Latest discussion:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201102/msg00056.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201102/msg00055.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201102/msg00054.html

ASSEMBLY-250: Need an equivalent to "autowire" for the eventing world
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-250

Proposal in JIRA
Follow on discussion from previous meeting

Latest discussion:

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201101/msg00041.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201101/msg00030.html

ASSEMBLY-227: Promotion of consumers and producers undermines composability
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-227

Proposal
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201004/msg00044.html
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/37273/sca-assembly-1.2-spec-wd01-issue-227.pdf
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/37272/sca-assembly-1.2-spec-wd01-issue-227.doc

Latest discussions:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201012/msg00023.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201012/msg00022.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201012/msg00021.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201012/msg00020.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201012/msg00019.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201012/msg00017.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201012/msg00016.html

ASSEMBLY-235: Remotable interface compatibility should not be restricted to a WSDL 1.1 mapping
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-235

Latest discussion:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201102/msg00079.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201102/msg00078.html

ASSEMBLY-233: Define how Policy works for SCA Eventing
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-233

No Proposal

ASSEMBLY-243: Is the default channel configurable?
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-243

No proposal

ASSEMBLY-244: How to enable extensibility to multiple bindings on a channel
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-244

Outline proposal in JIRA

ASSEMBLY-245: Adopt the WS-RA Event Description specification to declare SCA Event Types
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-245

Proposal in JIRA

ASSEMBLY-246: Provide Location within SCA Contributions for eventType Declarations
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-246

Proposal in JIRA

ASSEMBLY-247: What are the requirements on an SCA Binding for eventing purposes?
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-247

No proposal

ASSEMBLY-248: RFC2119 wording and conformance statement need to be added for event processing
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-248

No proposal

8. AOB

Minutes

Scribe: Eric Wells

Bob sends regrets, he's in a F2F

Opening

Roll call 11/19 = 57% - Quorate but not 2/3

Agenda accepted as posted

Approval of Minutes

Minutes from 2011-03-01

http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/41375/SCA%20Assembly%20minutes%202011-03-01.html

Resolution: Minutes of 2011-03-08 approved w/o

Action Items

Action: id=2010-09-22-8 status=pending owner="EricJ" produce new proposal for ASSEMBLY-227

Action: id=2011-01-04-2 status=pending Edwards to write a new proposal for the resolution of Assembly-246 along the lines contained in wsra

No updates or changes to AI status

Administrivia

None

Exit Criteria

The TC needs to adopt concrete exit criteria.

Discussion:
Lots of debate on the Assembly mailing list (too many emails to list!

(Too many to summarize)

MikeE:

Some confusion with subject of conformance - which is different from Exit Criteria

...if people are unhappy with Conformance then a new issue(s) should be raised

MikeE:

At the moment need two independent runtimes...

...but what is independent and how to cover optional items (SHOULD, MAY, etc)

MikeE:

Second issue is Test Suite and if required for Exit Criteria

MartinC:

Separate consideration for Spec vs. Test Suite

...they're separate deliverables and maybe we need different Exit Criteria

...Not sure if Test Suite should be an OASIS Standard

BryanA:

Actualy 5 deliverable docs - may need exit criteria for all and need to decide if they would be "standards"

JeffM:

Does proposal for Exit Criteria require all normative statements in spec to be tested?

DannyV:

Doesn't include optional statements

DannyV noted for roll

JimM:

Not sure it's necessary for optional

MikeE:

Charter does not say anything about a requirement for testing

MartinC:

Normative is anything with RFC2119

Here is the charter language regd exit criteria:

The TC shall define concrete exit criteria that include at least two independent offerings that implement and are compliant with the all normative portions of specifications and demonstrate interoperability and portability as appropriate. Note that these are minimums and that the TC is free to set more stringent criteria.

I suggest the following grades:

1. mandatory must be tested with two implementations

2. Optional - two imples, first class

3. optional with one impl mark as such

4. optional with no impl - remove from spec

SanjayP:

Purpose of Exit Criteria is to show spec is implementable

...if that is the case then two implementations should be enough regadless of passing Test Suite

...but if they do then this can be taken as proof of implemetation - not just a claim

Mike's proposal 1:

"The Concrete Exit Criteria for the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification are that:

o there shall be 2 independent SCA runtimes that are compliant with all normative portions of the
specification as described in Section 12.2 of the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification

o the 2 independent runtimes shall pass the Test Suite for SCA Assembly as described in the document
'TestCases for the SCA Assembly Model Version 1.1 Specification' "

Mike's proposal 2:

"The Concrete Exit Criteria for the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification are that:

o there shall be at least 2 independent SCA runtimes that are compliant with each normative portion of the
specification as described in Section 12.2 of the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification

o the 2 independent runtimes must provide a demonstration of their conformance to the SCA Assembly specification
and it is recommended but not required that this is done by the runtime passing the Test Suite for SCA Assembly as described in the
document 'TestCases for the SCA Assembly Model Version 1.1 Specification'

EricJ:

Need to be careful - E.G. Test cases have only ONE Test Suite and may need TWO for Exit

EricJ noted for roll

MikeE:

Think its fair for TC to ask for some evidence of conformance - I.E. passing Test Suite

Mike's proposal email:

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201103/msg00029.html

Motion: Accept 1st proposal above as Exit Criteria for Specification m=AnishK s:BryanA

BryanA:

Would this allow different Exit Criteria for other document?

MikeE:

Yes - this is for SCA v1.1 Specification only

EricJ:

Does this require passing the optional normative parts? If so what coverage is needed?

AnishK:

Does cover optional, but...

...would interpet as only needing coverage of optional parts by not necessarily by both (all) runtimes

DannyV:

Would argue that both (all) implementations would have to cover all optional parts

MikeE:

Implementations are only required to "prove to TC" - which would be agreed/accepted by vote

we don't have a normalized test report

but some test output would be nice

for each normarive statement there exists at least two implementations that operate with evidence satisfactory to the TC

DannyV:

The problem then is that "concrete evidence" is subjective (to TC interpretation)

DannyV:

Wants to ammend to say "evidence for passing Test Suite is subject to TC decision"

o the 2 independent runtimes shall pass the Test Suite for SCA Assembly as described in the document
'TestCases for the SCA Assembly Model Version 1.1 Specification' To the satisfaction of the TC "

Motion: Amend second point of first proposal as posted in Chat above m=DannyV s=EricJ

JeffM:

Intent of test was same as W3C - if you pass the test then by definition implementation is conformant

...I will not vote for anything that does not pss the test suite (green lightss for all tests)

my attempt at translating what is on the white board in the room: for each normative statement, there exists at least two implementations that implement it

[much nicer and precise using set notation]

BryanA:

Does this mean we are not dictating format of evidence but still require that evidence

MikeE:

That is the intent

JeffM:

The amendment does not state that

FIVE MINUTES

(Discussion of what it means to "Pass Test Suite" if there's no standard form of proof)

test output in any form which reports pass/fail against each test...how hard is that?

JimM:

Just need a sheet of paper or and "independently runnable" vereification

o the 2 independent runtimes shall pass the Test Suite for SCA Assembly as described in the document
'TestCases for the SCA Assembly Model Version 1.1 Specification'. The TC shall use the results (expected output) of the relevant tests, submitted by the implementer (in any form), to verify that the runtime passes the tests.

JeffM:

I want to see output of running tests - to satisfy myself that results have not been "fixed"

out of time!

BobF:

Looking for reasonable evidence that test have been passed - not proof.

BobF noted for roll

Out of time

AOB

Straggler roll

DannyV, EricJ, DianeJ, SanjayP

diane and peter for roll

BobF PeterN

(danny, bob, sanjay recorded)

roll is fixed at: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/event.php?event_id=28498

EricW:

Thanks Martin

thanks Eric

Schreiber diagnostics output

[Delete this section before publishing the minutes]

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final validation: Title not specified, default title 'Oasis SCA-Assembly Teleconference...' was assumed

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system: Transformer: SAXON 9.2.1.2

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sca-assembly message

- DRAFT -

Oasis SCA-Assembly Teleconference

08 MAR 2011

Attendees

Present

Chairs

Scribe

Agenda:

Contents

Action Items

Resolutions

Minutes

Opening

Approval of Minutes

Action Items

Administrivia

Exit Criteria

AOB

Schreiber diagnostics output