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Subject: Draft Minutes from 2011-03-15


All,

     Please find attached the draft minutes from last Tuesday. I had some problems scribing during the meeting and have had to edit the transcript.

 

Can you please check that your attendance is recorded and that I have not missed any important details.

 

Best Regards,

                       Eric.

Title: SCA-Assembly - 2011-03-15


OASIS Logo

- DRAFT -

Oasis SCA-Assembly Teleconference

15 MAR 2011

Attendees

Present

Robert FreundHitachi, Ltd.Group Member
Eric WellsHitachi, Ltd.Group Member
Bryan AupperleIBMGroup Member
David BoozIBMGroup Member
Mike EdwardsIBMGroup Member
Simon HoldsworthIBMGroup Member
Diane JordanIBMGroup Member
Mike KaiserIBMGroup Member
Peter NiblettIBMGroup Member
Jim MarinoIndividualGroup Member
Jeff EstefanJet Propulsion Laboratory:*Group Member
Martin ChapmanOracle CorporationGroup Member
Anish KarmarkarOracle CorporationGroup Member
Rich LevinsonOracle CorporationGroup Member
Jeff MischkinskyOracle CorporationGroup Member
Eric JohnsonTIBCO Software Inc.Group Member
Danny van der RijnTIBCO Software Inc.Group Member

Chairs

Martin Chapman
Mike Edwards

Scribe

Eric Wells

Agenda:

1. Intro

Roll call
Scribe confirmation
Agenda bashing

2. Approval of minutes of previous SCA-Assembly TC meeting

http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/41430/SCA%20Assembly%20minutes%202011-03-08.html

3. Action Items

id=2010-09-22-8 status=pending owner="EricJ" produce new proposal for ASSEMBLY-227
id=2011-01-04-2 status=pending Edwards to write a new proposal for the resolution of Assembly-246 along the lines contained in wsra

4. TC Administrivia

None

5. Exit Criteria

The TC needs to adopt concrete exit criteria.

Discussion:
Lots of debate on the Assembly mailing list (too many emails to list !)

intention is to complete the activities that were under debate and vote at the end of last week's meeting

5.1 1.1 Specification New Issues

ASSEMBLY 260: (v1.1) Remove RFC2119 language for underspecified normative statements
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-260

ASSEMBLY 261: (v1.1) Upgrade ASM12017, ASM12030, ASM14004 be mandatory statements
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-261

6. 1.2 Specification Open Issues (1.2)

ASSEMBLY-239: (1.2): Business data filter element needs better name, definition
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-239

Alternate proposals:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201102/msg00039.html


6. New Issues (1.2)

ASSEMBLY-257: Global domain channels creation inconsistent with pattern established by definitions.xml
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-257

ASSEMBLY-258: Section 11 of spec should be marked non-normative
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-258

ASSEMBLY-259: Some way to "late bind" references to global domain channels
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-259


7. 1.2 Specification Open Issues (1.2)

ASSEMBLY-253: Add Autocreation of Channels to SCA Assembly 1.2
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-253

Latest discussion:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201102/msg00056.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201102/msg00055.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201102/msg00054.html


ASSEMBLY-250: Need an equivalent to "autowire" for the eventing world
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-250

Proposal in JIRA
Follow on discussion from previous meeting

Latest discussion:

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201101/msg00041.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201101/msg00030.html


ASSEMBLY-227: Promotion of consumers and producers undermines composability
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-227

Proposal
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201004/msg00044.html
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/37273/sca-assembly-1.2-spec-wd01-issue-227.pdf
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/37272/sca-assembly-1.2-spec-wd01-issue-227.doc

Latest discussions:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201012/msg00023.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201012/msg00022.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201012/msg00021.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201012/msg00020.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201012/msg00019.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201012/msg00017.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201012/msg00016.html


ASSEMBLY-235: Remotable interface compatibility should not be restricted to a WSDL 1.1 mapping
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-235

Latest discussion:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201102/msg00079.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201102/msg00078.html


ASSEMBLY-233: Define how Policy works for SCA Eventing
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-233

No Proposal

ASSEMBLY-243: Is the default channel configurable?
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-243

No proposal

ASSEMBLY-244: How to enable extensibility to multiple bindings on a channel
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-244

Outline proposal in JIRA

ASSEMBLY-245: Adopt the WS-RA Event Description specification to declare SCA Event Types
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-245

Proposal in JIRA

ASSEMBLY-246: Provide Location within SCA Contributions for eventType Declarations
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-246

Proposal in JIRA


ASSEMBLY-247: What are the requirements on an SCA Binding for eventing purposes?
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-247

No proposal

ASSEMBLY-248: RFC2119 wording and conformance statement need to be added for event processing
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-248

No proposal


8. AOB

Contents

Topics
[1]  Opening
[2]  Approval of Minutes
[3]  Action Items
[4]  Administrivia
[5]  Exit Criteria
[6]  AOB
Table of Resolutions
Table of Action Items

Action Items

Pending:
id=2010-09-22-8 status=pending owner="EricJ" produce new proposal for ASSEMBLY-227
id=2011-01-04-2 status=pending Edwards to write a new proposal for the resolution of Assembly-246 along the lines contained in wsra

Resolutions


Minutes

<Bob>
Eric, would you mind scribing until my shoulder is taken care of?
<EricW>
OK Bob I'm dialling in now

Scribe: Eric Wells

Opening

Roll Call - 13/20 = 65% Quorate but not 2/3
Agenda - approved as posted
MikeE:
Note there are 1.1 new issues related to Exit Criteria
PeterN noted for roll
Roll now 14/20 = 70% - OK now for new issues (V1.1)

Approval of Minutes

No discussion, no objections
Resolution: Minutes of 2011-03-08 approved w/o

Action Items

Action: id=2010-09-22-8 status=pending owner="EricJ" produce new proposal for ASSEMBLY-227
Action: id=2011-01-04-2 status=pending Edwards to write a new proposal for the resolution of Assembly-246 along the lines contained in wsra

Administrivia

None

Exit Criteria

The TC needs to adopt concrete exit criteria.

Discussion:
Lots of debate on the Assembly mailing list (too many messages to list!)

Intention is to complete the activities that were under debate and vote at the end of last week's meeting
Floor opened for discussion
MartinC:
New issues really about matching tests to normative statements
 
...related to Exit Criteria, but not identical
 
...We should examine statements that are not coverd by tests (are they needed/useful?)
MikeE:
Requiring 2+ coverage of ALL optional parts then don't think we could ever exit
<anish>
Mike's original proposal:
"The Concrete Exit Criteria for the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification are that:

o there shall be 2 independent SCA runtimes that are compliant with all normative portions of the
specification as described in Section 12.2 of the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification

o the 2 independent runtimes shall pass the Test Suite for SCA Assembly as described in the document
'TestCases for the SCA Assembly Model Version 1.1 Specification' "
<anish>
my changes sent in email:
"The Concrete Exit Criteria for the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification are that:

o there shall be at least 2 independent SCA runtimes that are compliant with each normative portion of the specification as described in Section 12.2 of the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification

o the 2 independent runtimes shall pass the Test Suite for SCA Assembly as described in the document 'TestCases for the SCA Assembly Model Version 1.1 Specification'. The TC shall use the results (expected output) of the relevant tests, submitted by the implementer (in any form), to verify that the runtime passes the tests.
AnishK:
Intention of my proposal was to loosen criteria such that UNION(all runtimes) >= 2 compliant with all normative portions
<anish>
normative == mandatory+optional
MikeE:
Can comply with optional part by not implementing
MartinC:
No - would need to implement feature
MikeE:
This is about compliance - can comply with spec by not implementing optional parts
AnishK:
Exit Criteria is not compliance - would need implementation
MikeE:
I cannot see every optional part being covered (perhaps in Assembly, but NOT for other parts of SCA)
MikeE:
New issues would make some optional parts mandatory and make the rest non-normative
 
...there would be no optional parts in Assembly, but this approach would not work for others (e.g. SCA Bindings - WS MakeConnection)
AnishK:
Either have to have 2+ implementations or remove from spec
DannyV noted for roll
EricW:
I think removeing some parts would cause a stir when the spec goes to Public Review
 
...Removing/changing normative parts of spec may cause objections with external (to OASIS) implementors
BobF:
What stage does the Exit Criteria apply to? CO? OS?
<jeff.mischkinsky>
OASIS Final Deliverable
<jeff.mischkinsky>
that would be CS
BobF:
Would suggest Exit Criteria applies to OASIS standard
<jeff.mischkinsky>
There is no requirement to go to OS and a CS is a Final Deliverable -- there can be no changes between a CS and a OS document
<jeff.mischkinsky>
OS is simply an extra vote on an already final deliverable to change the cover page to OS from CS
EricW:
Guys my phone connection has died - redialling
<jeff.mischkinsky>
Rather than arguing about whehter there would be great consternation in the "community" about changes, the way to find out is to ask, not speculate
<Bob>
Anish, that is why we need to consider each potential item on a case by case besis
<anish>
@bob, i agree
Anish:
I think we are OK with respect to the WS-MakeConnection section in the WS Binding spec
MartinC:
Outside parties would just need to adjust to final material
 
...All specs are subject to change before final material - if they want some feature they should be part of the TC
<Bob>
Nothing prevents the cttee from voting more than one CS
MikeK:
Proposes restoring MikeE's original exit criteria:
"The Concrete Exit Criteria for the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification are that:

o there shall be 2 independent SCA runtimes that are compliant with all normative portions of the
specification as described in Section 12.2 of the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification

o the 2 independent runtimes shall pass the Test Suite for SCA Assembly as described in the document
'TestCases for the SCA Assembly Model Version 1.1 Specification' "
Motion: Accept as exit criteria the proposal 1 made by Mike Edwards as posted above m=MikeK s=BryanA
EricJ:
Would like to ask why MikeK doesn't like Anish's amended proposal
EricJ noted for roll
MikeK:
Think we may end up never being able to exit OR would have to make too many changes to specs
<Bob>
for each normative statement there exists at least two complient implementations?
<MartinC>
then i dont know why the text says "there shall be 2 independent SCA runtimes that are compliant with all normative portions of the" vs there shall be 2 independent SCA runtimes that are compliant with"
AnishK:
Difference is between ALL/EACH normative statements
 
...Also how conformance/compliance can be proven
Motion: Amend the criteria to read "all mandatory normative portions" in the 1st bullet m=MartinC s=MikeK
EricJ:
Speaks against the amendment - thinks this is against spirit of the TC charter
AnishK:
Against amendment for same reason
MartinC:
Also speaks against his own amendment - proposed to provoke discussion/clarification
No one speaks in favor of amendment
Motion to ammend fails
Three minutes remaining
EricJ:
Moves to amend the exit criteria to read:

"The Concrete Exit Criteria for the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification are that:

o there shall be at least 2 independent SCA runtimes that are compliant with each normative portion of the specification as described in Section 12.2 of the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification

o the 2 independent runtimes shall pass the Test Suite for SCA Assembly as described in the document 'TestCases for the SCA Assembly Model Version 1.1 Specification'. The TC shall use the results (expected output) of the relevant tests, submitted by the implementer (in any form), to verify that the runtime passes the tests.
Motion: Amemnd proposal to text as posted above m=EricJ s=AnishK
Three minutes remaining
SimonH:
Speaks against the motion
BobF:
Tables the motion for first order of business for next week
Unanimous consent to tabling the motion

AOB

Straggler roll - DannyV EricJ PeterN
Meeting Adjourned 9:02AM PDT
<MartinC>
<MartinC>
thanks ericw

[End of Minutes]
Formatted on 2011-03-16 at 23:50:33 GMT-7


Minutes formatted by Schreiber, a collection of XSLT stylesheets by Bob Freund modeled after David Booth's scribe

Schreiber diagnostics output

[Delete this section before publishing the minutes]

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final validation: Title not specified, default title 'Oasis SCA-Assembly Teleconference...' was assumed

final validation: Chair not specified, default chair was assumed

statistics: Schreiber found 84 input lines

edits: Schreiber found no text-edit commands

command-scribe: Line 5: Scribe 'Eric Wells' is recognized by use of the nick 'EricW'

command-scribe: Line 5: EricW's nick 'EricW' has been selected

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citation-detection-scribed: Line 33: Check for possible unrecognized nick '"The Concrete Exit Criteria for the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification are that'

citation-detection-scribed: Line 85: Check for possible unrecognized nick 'Meeting Adjourned 9'

system: Transformer: SAXON 9.2.1.2

[End of Schreiber diagnostic output]



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