Draft Minutes from 2011-03-22

["Eric Wells" <eric.wells@hitachisoftware.com>]

All,

     Draft minutes from today’s call attached.

 

Best Regards,

                      Eric.

 

Eric Wells

Consulting Engineer

Hitachi Computer Products (America) Inc.

Cell: +1 415 672 2594

eric.wells@hitachisoftware.com

 

 

Title: SCA-Assembly - 2011-03-22



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- DRAFT -

Oasis SCA-Assembly Teleconference

22 MAR 2011

Attendees

Present

Robert Freund	Hitachi, Ltd.	Group Member
Eric Wells	Hitachi, Ltd.	Group Member
Bryan Aupperle	IBM	Group Member
David Booz	IBM	Group Member
Mike Edwards	IBM	Group Member
Simon Holdsworth	IBM	Group Member
Diane Jordan	IBM	Group Member
Mike Kaiser	IBM	Group Member
Peter Niblett	IBM	Group Member
Jim Marino	Individual	Group Member
Martin Chapman	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Anish Karmarkar	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Rich Levinson	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Ashok Malhotra	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Jeff Mischkinsky	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Gilbert Pilz	Oracle Corporation	Group Member
Sanjay Patil	SAP AG*	Group Member
Plamen Pavlov	SAP AG*	Group Member
Eric Johnson	TIBCO Software Inc.	Group Member
Scott Vorthmann	TIBCO Software Inc.	Group Member

Chairs

Martin Chapman
Mike Edwards

Scribe

Eric Wells

Agenda:

1. Intro

Roll call
Scribe confirmation
Agenda bashing

2. Approval of minutes of previous SCA-Assembly TC meeting

http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/41491/SCA%20Assembly%20minutes%202011-03-15.html

3. Action Items

id=2010-09-22-8 status=pending owner="EricJ" produce new proposal for ASSEMBLY-227
id=2011-01-04-2 status=pending Edwards to write a new proposal for the resolution of Assembly-246 along the lines contained in wsra

4. TC Administrivia

None

5. Exit Criteria

The TC needs to adopt concrete exit criteria.

Motion tabled from meeting of 15 March 2011 to adopt:

"The Concrete Exit Criteria for the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification are that:

o there shall be at least 2 independent SCA runtimes that are compliant with each normative portion of the specification as described in Section 12.2 of the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification

o the 2 independent runtimes shall pass the Test Suite for SCA Assembly as described in the document 'TestCases for the SCA Assembly Model Version 1.1 Specification'.
The TC shall use the results (expected output) of the relevant tests, submitted by the implementer (in any form), to verify that the runtime passes the tests."


5.1 1.1 Specification New Issues

ASSEMBLY 260: (v1.1) Remove RFC2119 language for underspecified normative statements
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-260

ASSEMBLY 261: (v1.1) Upgrade ASM12017, ASM12030, ASM14004 be mandatory statements
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-261

6. 1.2 Specification Open Issues (1.2)

ASSEMBLY-239: (1.2): Business data filter element needs better name, definition
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-239

Alternate proposals:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201102/msg00039.html


6. New Issues (1.2)

ASSEMBLY-257: Global domain channels creation inconsistent with pattern established by definitions.xml
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-257

ASSEMBLY-258: Section 11 of spec should be marked non-normative
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-258

ASSEMBLY-259: Some way to "late bind" references to global domain channels
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-259


7. 1.2 Specification Open Issues (1.2)

ASSEMBLY-253: Add Autocreation of Channels to SCA Assembly 1.2
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-253

Latest discussion:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201102/msg00056.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201102/msg00055.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201102/msg00054.html


ASSEMBLY-250: Need an equivalent to "autowire" for the eventing world
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-250

Proposal in JIRA
Follow on discussion from previous meeting

Latest discussion:

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201101/msg00041.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201101/msg00030.html


ASSEMBLY-227: Promotion of consumers and producers undermines composability
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-227

Proposal
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201004/msg00044.html
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/37273/sca-assembly-1.2-spec-wd01-issue-227.pdf
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/37272/sca-assembly-1.2-spec-wd01-issue-227.doc

Latest discussions:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201012/msg00023.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201012/msg00022.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201012/msg00021.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201012/msg00020.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201012/msg00019.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201012/msg00017.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201012/msg00016.html


ASSEMBLY-235: Remotable interface compatibility should not be restricted to a WSDL 1.1 mapping
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-235

Latest discussion:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201102/msg00079.html
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201102/msg00078.html


ASSEMBLY-233: Define how Policy works for SCA Eventing
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-233

No Proposal

ASSEMBLY-243: Is the default channel configurable?
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-243

No proposal

ASSEMBLY-244: How to enable extensibility to multiple bindings on a channel
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-244

Outline proposal in JIRA

ASSEMBLY-245: Adopt the WS-RA Event Description specification to declare SCA Event Types
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-245

Proposal in JIRA

ASSEMBLY-246: Provide Location within SCA Contributions for eventType Declarations
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-246

Proposal in JIRA


ASSEMBLY-247: What are the requirements on an SCA Binding for eventing purposes?
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-247

No proposal

ASSEMBLY-248: RFC2119 wording and conformance statement need to be added for event processing
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-248

No proposal


8. AOB

---

Contents

Topics

[1]  Opening

[2]  Approval of Minutes

[3]  Action items

[4]  Administrivia

[5]  Exit Criteria

[6]  New Issues (1.1)

[7]  ASSEMBLY 260: (v1.1) Remove RFC2119 language for underspecified normative statements
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-260

[8]  ASSEMBLY 261: (v1.1) Upgrade ASM12017, ASM12030, ASM14004 be mandatory statements
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-261

[9]  AOB

Table of Resolutions

Table of Action Items

---

Action Items

Pending:

id=2010-09-22-8 status=pending owner="EricJ" produce new proposal for ASSEMBLY-227

id=2011-01-04-2 status=pending Edwards to write a new proposal for the resolution of Assembly-246 along the lines contained in wsra

---

Resolutions

• 2011-03-22-1: Minutes of 2011-03-15 approved w/o
• 2011-03-22-2: Meeting of 2011-04-26 cancelled w/o
• 2011-03-22-3: Amend the text of the original motion to change the start of the second bullet to read "at least" instead of "the" w/o
• 2011-03-22-4: Open ASSEMBLY-260 with the inclusion of ASM60021 to the list of affected conformance items w/o
• 2011-03-22-5: Assembly-261 opened w/o

---

Minutes

Scribe: Eric Wells

<Mike Edwards>

Thank you for scribing Eric

EricW:

NP Mike - Bob will perhaps join but his shoulder needs fixing

<Mike Edwards>

Sorry to hear that

<Bob>

I am here, Thanks Eric

Opening

Roll call - 15/21 = 71% - Quorate (>2/3)

Agenda - accepted as posted

EricJ noted ASSEMBLY-258 applies to 1.1 as well as 1.2

Approval of Minutes

Minutes of 2011-03-15

http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/41491/SCA%20Assembly%20minutes%202011-03-15.html

No objections

Resolution: Minutes of 2011-03-15 approved w/o

Action items

Action: id=2010-09-22-8 status=pending owner="EricJ" produce new proposal for ASSEMBLY-227

Action: id=2011-01-04-2 status=pending Edwards to write a new proposal for the resolution of Assembly-246 along the lines contained in wsra

No changes to status

Administrivia

Europe is on DST from next w/e so call times back to "normal"

Chairs noted there are a number of holidays in the near future

Resolution: Meeting of 2011-04-26 cancelled w/o

Exit Criteria

Tabled motion from last meeting resumed:

"The Concrete Exit Criteria for the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification are that:

o there shall be at least 2 independent SCA runtimes that are compliant with each normative portion of the specification as described in Section 12.2 of the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification

o the 2 independent runtimes shall pass the Test Suite for SCA Assembly as described in the document 'TestCases for the SCA Assembly Model Version 1.1 Specification'. The TC shall use the results (expected output) of the relevant tests, submitted by the implementer (in any form), to verify that the runtime passes the tests.

JeffM noted for roll

EricJ noted for roll

Point of order - noted that previous motion expires as this is a new meeting

Motion: Adopt text posted above as Exit Criteria for SCA Assembly 1.1 m=EricJ s=AnishK

AnishK:

Notes that he would interpret this as requiring TWO+ (>=2) implementations of EVERY normative statement (mandatory & optional)

<Mike Kaiser>

Add the following to the end of the motion - not intended as part of the proposed Exit Criteria, but
as an explanation of the effects on specifications being subject to the proposed Exit Criteria:

"The result of these exit criteria is that it is very hard to sustain optional normative features in any of
the OASIS SCA specifications and that all the OASIS SCA specifications must be examined with
the presumption that any optional normative statement will be modified either to make the statement
mandatory or to reduce the statement from being normative to being informative"

Without a clear understanding along these lines, I think that the proposed Exit Criteria will almost
ensure that any specification with optional items will never pass the Exit Criteria. The actual changes
to each specification will of course be subject to usual TC issue process.

Motion: Amend motion by adding text posted above to end of Exit Criteria m=MikeK

MikeK:

Thinks there should be a note concerning optional normative statements

 

...don't think there will EVER be two or more implementations of all optionall normative statements

JeffM:

This is opinion about effect of original motion

 

...this is not an amendment to the motion

No second - motion to amend fails

Motion: Amend the text of the original motion to change the start of the second bullet to read "at least" instead of "the" m=EricJ s=AnishK

No discussion - no objections

Resolution: Amend the text of the original motion to change the start of the second bullet to read "at least" instead of "the" w/o

Amended text for main motion:

"The Concrete Exit Criteria for the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification are that:

o there shall be at least 2 independent SCA runtimes that are compliant with each normative portion of the specification as described in Section 12.2 of the SCA Assembly V1.1 specification

o At lest two independent runtimes shall pass the Test Suite for SCA Assembly as described in the document 'TestCases for the SCA Assembly Model Version 1.1 Specification'. The TC shall use the results (expected output) of the relevant tests, submitted by the implementer (in any form), to verify that the runtime passes the tests.

MikeE:

Thinks MikeK's opinion is very valid - there will never be enough coverage of optional normative statements to Exit

 

...not so much of a problem for Assembly, but a real problem for other SCA specs

 

...removing/making mandatory may help, but can't be done for all optional statments in other specs

<Bob>

I guess that if there is never more than one of an optional feature then certainly there is no interoperability risk ;-)

JimM noted for roll

JimM:

Does anyone implement ALL optional statements?

JeffM:

This is sort of indended side effect - if no one implements a statement it shouldn't be in the spec

<Sanjay>

I think we should get the specs out of the door now even if we (the TC) are not perfectly happy with it. We are just taking too long and with further delays we might be risking losing the interest of the market. Just my opinion.

EricJ:

To me the amended text is just a (clear) reading of the charter

MartinC:

We should review when we have implementations for consideration

 

...if they don't implement some things then we should review those items not implemented

MikeE:

This is easy for Assembly but MUCH more difficult for other SCA spes

 

...other TC's will want to follow this TC's lead but I don't believe this would work for them

BobF:

Point of order - seems that the current motion is OK

 

...any other interprtation would be against the charter and so out of order

JeffM:

Calls the question

No objections to calling the question

MikeE:

Objects to main motion

Vote: For 7, Against 10 - motion for proposed Exit Criteria fails

MikeE (as Chair) exhortrs TC members to try and resolve the impass on the mailing list

New Issues (1.1)

ASSEMBLY 260: (v1.1) Remove RFC2119 language for underspecified normative statements
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-260

MartinC:

Many optional normative statements are untestable

 

...essentially they are just "pious advice" and shouldn't really be normative

<Mike Edwards>

Statments affected by this issue are:
The statements affected are: ASM12008, ASM12013, ASM12014, ASM12015, ASM12016, ASM12018, ASM12020, ASM14001, ASM14002

discussion

<Mike Edwards>

Why is ASM60021 not included:

[ASM60021]
For the case of an un-wired reference with multiplicity 1..1 or 1..n the deployment process provided by an SCA runtime SHOULD issue a warning.

MartinC:

ASM60021 should be included in the list of affected statements

SIX MINUTES

Motion: Open ASSEMBLY-260 with the inclusion of ASM60021 to the list of affected conformance items m=EricJ s=MartinC

no discussion - no objections

Resolution: Open ASSEMBLY-260 with the inclusion of ASM60021 to the list of affected conformance items w/o

ASSEMBLY 261: (v1.1) Upgrade ASM12017, ASM12030, ASM14004 be mandatory statements
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/ASSEMBLY-261

<MartinC >

ASM12017, ASM12030, ASM14004

discussion

EricJ:

ASM12030 - what is the target of this statement? (w.r.t. upgrading)

 

...also questions regarding ASM14004

Motion: Open ASSEMBLY-261 m=Anishk s=MartinC

Resolution: Assembly-261 opened w/o

AOB

Straggler roll - EricJ JeffM JimM

<MartinC >

roll is fixed: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/event.php?event_id=28500

<MartinC >

thanks ericw

COB 9:00AM PDT

[End of Minutes]
Formatted on 2011-03-22 at 12:54:17 GMT-7

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