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Subject: SCA assembly raw chat log 26 march 2012



Mike Edwards (UK): 1. Intro 
 
Roll call 
Scribe confirmation 
Agenda bashing 
 
2. Approval of minutes of previous SCA-Assembly TC meeting 
 
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201302/msg00002.html
 
 
3. Action Items 
 
None
 
 
4. Discussion of Future of the SCA Assembly TC
 
Consideration following the failed vote to close the TC
 
 
5. Fabric3 SCA Conformance claim
 
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201303/msg00000.html
 
discussion
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201303/msg00009.html
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201303/msg00010.html
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201303/msg00011.html
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201303/msg00012.html
 
6. Date of Next Meeting
 
7. AOB

MartinC : I can do roll

Mike Edwards (UK): IScribe: Mike Edwards

Mike Edwards (UK): Meeting 6/10 = quorate

Mike Edwards (UK): Agenda Bashing

Mike Edwards (UK): No changes

Mike Edwards (UK): Item 2 Approval of Minutes

Mike Edwards (UK): https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201302/msg00002.html

Mike Edwards (UK): Martin: We need to correct the date to 2013

anish just joined

Mike Edwards (UK): Minutes are accepted with change of date to 2013.

Mike Edwards (UK): Item 4 Discussion of Future of the SCA Assembly TC

Mike Edwards (UK): Bryan: The flurry of recent activity should be allowed to play out

Mike Edwards (UK): - the Java TC may have the longest running activity to complete

Mike Edwards (UK): Anish: Yes, need to see how the submissions play out

Mike Edwards (UK): - not motivated to do a lot of work

Mike Edwards (UK): Jeff: I agree with Anish

Mike Edwards (UK): Jim: I am motivated to complete stuff

anish: gartner report http://www.gartner.com/id=1660515

anish: ... and that was in 2011

Jim M: Yes and Gartner has an excellent track record of predicting new technologies.  Seriously, we have received excellent feedback from people using SCA

Mike Edwards (UK): Eric: I have a question - where were the exit criteria

anish: i'm not suggesting that gartner is always right. And i was hoping to prove them wrong. That was in 2011. We have gotten a lot of excellent feedback too. But I was hoping to see a very widely implemented standard

Jim M: me too

Mike Edwards (UK): & there is nothing to say that we have to abide by the decision of the other TCs in order for the Assembly TC to make its decision on the conformance of some runtime?

Jim M: there are four open source implementations already

Mike Edwards (UK): Bryan: For Policy & Bindings, I think we are obliged to accept the judgement of the relevant TCs

Mike Edwards (UK): for the implementation language, things are more nuanced

Mike Edwards (UK): Martin: From an Assembly TC perspective, providing there are 2 conforming impls, including the flexiblity about the implementation language, then that is fine.  There is a separate question about the grouping of specifications and the need to advance them together, when they are intertwined

Mike Edwards (UK): Jim: The flexibility is there and there is an argument that Assembly can progress

anish: i know of three, which is the 4th one?

Mike Edwards (UK): Jeff: It does make sense to view the specs as a set

Mike Edwards (UK): Eric: I don't see where it says who judges the conformance to a particular implementation language spec

Mike Edwards (UK): Mike: I dont think that it does say, but for the ones belonging to one of the other TCs it seems more logical to let them make the judgement

Mike Edwards (UK): Danny: We're in a bind - my read of the intention of the acceptance language is 2 things 1) get the specs out the door = 2 conformant impls 2) can't get the language specs "out the door" unless there are 2 impls for each spec

Mike Edwards (UK): - once out the door, any runtime can claim conformance in the way stated for some random language

Mike Edwards (UK): Danny; we don't need to play strict attention to the language expressed

Mike Edwards (UK): Danny: We should only keep the Assembly TC going for the purpose of getting a 2nd implementation - and not for any other purpose

Mike Edwards (UK): Eric: I'm agreeing with Danny

MartinC : my poor eventing work

MartinC : down the tubes

Mike Edwards (UK): Anish: I agree with only continuing for purposes of getting to Committee Spec status

anish: i know, we did spend a lot of time/effort on it. Oh well. Sigh.

Mike Edwards (UK): Danny: We could raise the bar for a new issue, for example.

Mike Edwards (UK): Danny moves that the committee announce its attention to remain open for a time for the purpose of accepting new conformant implementations and not for changing the specification materially.

Mike Edwards (UK): Mike Kaiser seconds

Mike Edwards (UK): Martin: What happens if there is a requirement for maintenance - if a problem is reported?

Mike Edwards (UK): - we should be interested in maintenance.

Mike Edwards (UK): Danny: not sure I intend to cover maintenance - we are only concerned with getting to Committee Specification state

Mike Edwards (UK): once we get there, this motion can expire

Mike Edwards (UK): Anish: the motion will expire when someone actually tries to do something

Mike Edwards (UK): - I'm not sure that the motion is very meaningful in that the TC is already not doing stuff

Mike Edwards (UK): Jeff: If I vote no, what does that mean

Mike Edwards (UK): - I think this motion is irrelevant

Mike Edwards (UK): Danny: It was a means of putting a stake in the ground

Mike Edwards (UK): Danny withdraws the motion

Mike Edwards (UK): Item 5. Fabric3 SCA Conformance claim
 
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201303/msg00000.html
 
discussion
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201303/msg00009.html
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201303/msg00010.html
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201303/msg00011.html
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201303/msg00012.html

MartinC : https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/201108/msg00047.html

Mike Edwards (UK): Bryan: Assembly TC already accepted that Fabric3 conforms to the Assembly Model spec, as in the minutes above

Jim M: https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/?ui=2&ik=3ac05dc3d2&view=att&th=131f7e7ac7b92b27&attid=0.0&disp=inline&safe=1&zw&sadnir=1&saduie=AG9B_P-Vn_Fp8eee_BsiPxQrdbpH&sadet=1364312844821&sads=gTM5A-bWXruH64KOLlLp-bQFIgo

Mike Edwards (UK): Mike: So it seems that Assmeby TC should wait for the other TCs to pass judgement on the claims for conformance against their specs.

Mike Edwards (UK): ...which brings us to the date of the next meeting

Mike Edwards (UK): May 7th

Mike Edwards (UK): agreed

Mike Edwards (UK): Item 7 AOB

MartinC : roll: IBM Bryan Aupperle Voting Member
IBM David Booz Member
Oracle Martin Chapman Chair
IBM Mike Edwards Chair
TIBCO Software Inc. Eric Johnson Member
IBM Mike Kaiser Voting Member
Oracle Anish Karmarkar Voting Member
Individual Jim Marino Member
Oracle Jeff Mischkinsky Voting Member
SAP AG Sanjay Patil Member
Oracle Gilbert Pilz Voting Member
TIBCO Software Inc. Danny van der Rijn Voting Member


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