Raw transcript of 2/14/08 conf-call

["Patil, Sanjay" <sanjay.patil@sap.com>]

Title: Raw transcript of 2/14/08 conf-call

anonymous morphed into Simon Holdsworth
Simon Holdsworth: Audio conference:

Meeting Number: * 913929 * (press * before and after the digits)

Phone numbers:

Austria = Vienna 026822056419
Belgium = Brussels 022901709
China Toll Free = China North 108007121722, China South 108001201722
Denmark = Copenhagen 32714982
France = Paris 0170994364, Lyon 0426840196, Marseilles 0488915310
Germany = Berlin 030726167296, Frankfurt 069710445413, Hamburg 040809020620, Munich 089244432767, Stuttgart 0711490813212, Dusseldorf 021154073845
India Toll Free = 0008001006703
Ireland = Dublin 014367612
Italy = Milan 0230413007, Rome 06452108288, Turin 01121792100
Japan = Tokyo 0357675037
Netherlands = Amsterdam 0207965349
Portugal = Lisbon 211200415
Russia Toll Free = 81080022074011
Spain = Barcelona: 934923140, Madrid: 917889793
Sweden = Stockholm 0850520404
Switzerland = Geneva 0225927186
UK Toll Free = 08003581667
UK Toll = London 02071542988, Manchester 01612500379, Birmingham 01212604587
USA Toll Free = 18665289390
USA Toll = 19543344789
Simon Holdsworth: 1. Opening

Introductions
Roll call
Scribe assignment

Top 10 on the scribe list (full list below):
Anish Karmarkar Oracle Corporation
Sanjay Patil SAP AG
Laurent Domenech TIBCO Software Inc.
Nimish Hathalia TIBCO Software Inc.
Eric Johnson TIBCO Software Inc.
Michael Rowley BEA Systems, Inc.
Bryan Aupperle IBM
Tom Rutt Fujitsu Limited
David Booz IBM
Michael Beisiegel IBM

Agenda bashing

2. Approval of minutes of SCA-Binding TC meeting of 31st January

http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/27067/SCA%20Bindings%20minutes%202008-01-31.doc

3. Actions

o [Simon Holdsworth] Submit updated proposal for resolution to issue 18

4. New Issues

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-22
Bindings specifications should provide exemplary Implementations for Callbacks and Conversations
[Mike Edwards]

5. Face to Face topics

Discuss/suggest topics for the face to face meeting 1st week in March. Initial suggested set of possible topics:

a) Conformance statements in the specs
b) Testing - how, who, etc.
c) Walkthrough initial JCA binding draft
d) Plan of work, targets for spec completion
e) Any new bindings to consider
f) Existing issues that require discussion

6. Open Issue Discussion

Open issues with proposed resolutions:

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-18
Clarify the rules on which queues and topics are used for responses and callbacks [Simon Holdsworth]
Proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200802/msg00007.html

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-19
Web Service binding should allow #wsdl.binding with reference targets [Simon Nash] Proposal in issue

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-21
Support for callback and conversation ID-s in bindings
[Peter Peshev] Proposal in issue

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-13
What namespace(s) do we use for each binding? [Martin Chapman] Some discussion on last call

6 AOB
Simon Holdsworth: Agenda
Sanjay: scribe: Sanjay
Sanjay: topic: 2. Approval of minutes of SCA-Binding TC meeting of 31st January

http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/27067/SCA%20Bindings%20minutes%202008-01-31.doc
Sanjay: approved unanimously
Sanjay: topic: 3. Actions

o [Simon Holdsworth] Submit updated proposal for resolution to issue 18
Sanjay: Done
Sanjay: topic: 4. New Issues

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-22
Bindings specifications should provide exemplary Implementations for Callbacks and Conversations
[Mike Edwards]
Simon Holdsworth: At present, it is not clear which, if any, of the Bindings specifications enable the implementation of two important features of SCA described in the Assembly specification - namely Callback interfaces and Conversational interfaces.

Each of the Bindings specifications should explicitly declare if it is possible to support each of these features.

For each of the Bindings specifications that claim to support either or both of these features, the specification should provide a full description of at least one exemplary implementation of the feature using the Binding technology described in the specification. Multiple alternative implementations are permitted and may be added to the specification.

For example, it may be possible to implement Callbacks using WS-Addressing capabilities with Web services. If so, and example, showing the use of appropriate features of WS-Addressing and other relevant WS-* capabilities should be added to the specification. If an alternative exists using (say) WS-Context, then an example based on that technology can also be provided.

Sanjay: topic: 5. Face to Face topics
Sanjay: a) Conformance statements in the specs
Sanjay: b) Testing - how, who, etc.
c) Walkthrough initial JCA binding draft
d) Plan of work, targets for spec completion
e) Any new bindings to consider
f) Existing issues that require discussion

6. Open Issue Discussion
Mike Edwards: I am back on now
Sanjay: switched topic to 4: New issues
Sanjay: Simon: there is an open issue for support for conversation in ws binding
Sanjay: No objections to f2f agenda proposal
Sanjay: back to topic 4: New issues - http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-22
Sanjay: Bryan: is the question - which of the assembly capabilities are supported by a binding and what is normatively supported by a binding

Sanjay: Eric: Mike's wording speaks of exemplary implementations. Don't see a problem with opening the issue.
Sanjay: MichaelR: defining wire level protocols is out-of-scope for this TC. Don't see a problem if we stay within scope.

Sanjay: SimonNash: Not sure if we can avoid breaking the scope rules at this point of time
Sanjay: SimonH: Should we broaden the scope of Mike's new issue to capabilities beyond 'conversations and callback'?
Sanjay: MikeE: haven't identified other capabilities that impact bindings so far
Sanjay: Eric: Transactions policies may be relevant
Sanjay: ... and we may want the binding specs to talk about exemplary implementations
Sanjay: MikeE/SimonN: concerns about bringing in transactions
Sanjay: SimonH: transactions could be a possible topic for F2F
Sanjay: m: MikeE, s: Bryan, accepted unanimously
Sanjay: topic: 6. Open Issue Discussion

Open issues with proposed resolutions:

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-18
Clarify the rules on which queues and topics are used for responses and callbacks [Simon Holdsworth]
Proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200802/msg00007.html
Mike Edwards: this is one of the "exemplary implwmentations" I mentioned in the previous issue
anish: oasis ML archives suck
anish: bin00000.bin without a content-type
Mike Edwards: ooh yes
Sanjay: MichaelR: observes that the proposal uses 'MUST' and 'MUST NOT' in many places
Sanjay: ... questions the value of 'MUST'
Sanjay: SimonNash: benefit may be interoperability between different JMS providers
Sanjay: SimonH: We are essentially defining the callback and conversations protocol for JMS
Sanjay: SimonNash: cautions that we may be going out-of-scope
Sanjay: MichaelR: No protocol for Web services for conversations, etc, is out-of-scope. Not sure if the scoping constrain applies to JMS or not

Sanjay: s/No protocol/Defining protocol
Michael Rowley: The charter is at: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/sca-j/charter.php
Sanjay: Eric: since we are defining properties, we will have to define the context in which they are used
Michael Rowley: It includes the statement: "The TC will not define any wire-level protocols".
Sanjay: SimonH: The proposal enables interoperability between SCA runtimes (and not between existing JMS providers)
Sanjay: MichaelR: We may be able to weasel our way out of the charter restriction by saying - JMS is not about a wire-level protocol

Dave Booz: +1 to MichaelR
Sanjay: SimonNash: We may have to visit the charter rule in the context of WS binding. Don't see an issue with JMS binding.

Sanjay: MikeE: would prefer the proposal to satisfy the requirement of defining 'exemplary implementation' of supporting conversations/callback

Sanjay: MichaelR: ok with taking advantage that the proposal is not about wire-level protocol. But I consider the proposal as not-exemplary but as required.

Sanjay: SimonH: Don't see an alternative to the proposal for supporting conversations/callback in JMS binding
Sanjay: SimonNash: If someone makes a good case of alternative proposal, we could consider rewording the mechanism as one of the mechanisms

Sanjay: SimonNash: If someone makes a good case of alternative proposal, we could consider rewording the mechanism as one of the mechanisms

Sanjay: DaveBooz: does not see the charter boundary issue
Sanjay: DaveB: can not see Eric's comment to the proposal
Sanjay: SimonH: it was a private discussion which did not impact the proposal
Sanjay: m: SimonH, s: DaveB - to adopt Simon's proposal to resolve issue 18.
Sanjay: m: SimonH, s: DaveB - to adopt Simon's proposal to resolve issue 18.
Sanjay: motion passed unanimously. Issue 18 resolved.
Simon Nash: SimonN was the proposer
Sanjay: topic: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-19
Web Service binding should allow #wsdl.binding with reference targets [Simon Nash] Proposal in issue
Simon Holdsworth: The description of the #wsdl.binding form of the /binding.ws/@wsdlElement attribute says that the endpoint address URI for the SCA service or reference must be provided via the URI attribute on the binding. For references, this seems inconsistent with the assembly spec, which supports binding URIs, reference targets and wire targets as alternative ways of connecting references to services.

Proposal:

In the Web Service binding spec, lines 53 and 54, replace "...the endpoint address URI for the SCA service or reference must be provided via the URI attribute on the binding" by "the endpoint address URI for the SCA service or reference must be provided via the URI attribute on the binding, or (for reference bindings only) via a reference target URI or wire target URI".

Sanjay: s/m: SimonH/m: SimonNash
Sanjay: m: SimonNash, s: MikeE - accept the wording to resolve issue 19
anonymous morphed into Nimish Hathalia
Sanjay: MichaelR: envisioned use of reference and wire target URI for sca binding
Sanjay: MichaelR: envisioned use of reference and wire target URI for sca binding
Sanjay: MikeE: Assembly issue 6 provided clarifications regarding use of URI
Sanjay: ... it should be possible to use a reference target to point to a SCA service and still use a non sca-binding
Sanjay: MikeE: Definition of the target attribute for references and wires in Assembly spec may need a clarification
Sanjay: MikeE: Definition of the target attribute for references and wires in Assembly spec may need a clarification
Sanjay: MichaelR: can we say - the endpoint address implied by the reference/wire target URI
Michael Rowley: the endpoint address URI for the SCA service or reference must be provided via the URI attribute on the binding, or (for reference bindings only) may be provided by the endpoint address implied by a reference target URI or wire target URI".

Sanjay: Anish: ?? <scribe missed the comment>
Sanjay: SimonH: suggest SimonNash to post revised proposal on the mailing list
Sanjay: topic: AoB
Sanjay: meeting adjourned at 10:01 AM Pacific Time
anish: ... if i'm using reference target URI, I may not be specifying the endpoint target URI anywhere and that should be allowed