RE: [sca-bindings] ISSUE 19: Web Service binding should allow #wsdl.bindingwith reference targets

[Simon Nash <NASH@uk.ibm.com>]

Michael,
Here's take5, with a few extra words
to try to address this issue.

In the Web Service binding spec, lines
82 and 83, replace "...the endpoint address URI for the SCA service
or reference must be provided via the URI attribute on the binding."
by "...the endpoint address URI for an SCA reference MUST be provided
by either the URI attribute on the binding or a WS-Addressing EndpointReference
element, except where the SCA Assembly specification states that these
are optional.  The endpoint address URI for an SCA service or the
callback element of an SCA reference is determined as specified in section
2.1.  For the callback element of an SCA service, the binding MUST
NOT specify an endpoint address URI or a WS-Addressing EndpointReference.".


Alternatively, we could just delete
the sentence "In this case the endpoint address URI for the SCA service
or reference must be provided via the URI attribute on the binding.".
 I had suggested this earlier, but there were views that something
explicit needed to be said here about URIs.

    Simon

Simon C. Nash, IBM Distinguished Engineer
Member of the IBM Academy of Technology
Tel. +44-1962-815156  Fax +44-1962-818999

"Michael Rowley" <mrowley@bea.com>

27/03/2008 14:25

To	Simon Nash/UK/IBM@IBMGB, "OASIS Bindings" <sca-bindings@lists.oasis-open.org>
cc
Subject	RE: [sca-bindings] ISSUE 19: Web Service binding should allow #wsdl.binding with reference targets

Simon,
 
I get the feeling we are slowly
recrafting the text that is in the assembly spec for the @uri attribute
of a binding.  The sentence at line 2553 of CD01 says: "[@uri]
is optional for references defined in composites used as component implementations,
but required for references defined in composites contributed to SCA domains."
 
Don't we need a similar condition
here (at some point it needs to be defined, but it might be defined by
some "higher-level" component)?
 
Michael

---

From: Simon Nash [mailto:NASH@uk.ibm.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 9:00 AM
To: OASIS Bindings
Subject: RE: [sca-bindings] ISSUE 19: Web Service binding should allow
#wsdl.binding with reference targets


Mike, 
Thanks for spotting this.  This was always wrong in the spec and no-one
has noticed it until now.  Here's take 4: 

In the Web Service binding spec, lines 82 and 83, replace "...the
endpoint address URI for the SCA service or reference must be provided
via the URI attribute on the binding." by "...the endpoint address
URI for an SCA reference MUST be provided by either the URI attribute on
the binding or a WS-Addressing EndpointReference element.  The endpoint
address URI for an SCA service or the callback element of an SCA reference
is determined as specified in section 2.1.  For the callback element
of an SCA service, the binding MUST NOT specify an endpoint address URI
or a WS-Addressing EndpointReference.". 

    Simon 

Simon C. Nash, IBM Distinguished Engineer
Member of the IBM Academy of Technology
Tel. +44-1962-815156  Fax +44-1962-818999

Mike Edwards/UK/IBM@IBMGB

27/03/2008 10:53

To	"OASIS Bindings" <sca-bindings@lists.oasis-open.org>
cc
Subject	RE: [sca-bindings] ISSUE 19: Web Service binding should allow #wsdl.binding with reference targets

Simon, 

OK, I think I follow the intention of the proposal now.

I have one loose end in the proposal that I'd like to query.

For a reference, the proposal requires that the target endpoint address
is expressed as the value of the @uri 
attribute on the binding. 

However, the specification as a whole also has the possibility of having
a <wsa:EndPointReference.../> element 
which can be used to identify a target endpoint of a reference.  The
wording of the proposal appears to exclude 
the use of this element for a reference.  Is this meant to be the
case?  If so, I think that the proposal should include
modification to the wording of the section that deals with the wsa:EndPointReference
element and also to the 
wording of Section 2.1, to indicate the exclusion.


Yours,  Mike.

Strategist - Emerging Technologies, SCA & SDO.
Co Chair OASIS SCA Assembly TC.
IBM Hursley Park, Mail Point 146, Winchester, SO21 2JN, Great Britain.
Phone & FAX: +44-1962-818014    Mobile: +44-7802-467431  
Email:  mike_edwards@uk.ibm.com

Simon Nash/UK/IBM@IBMGB

26/03/2008 22:10

To	"OASIS Bindings" <sca-bindings@lists.oasis-open.org>
cc
Subject	RE: [sca-bindings] ISSUE 19: Web Service binding should allow #wsdl.binding with reference targets

Michael, 
Your point is well taken. Here's take 3 of option B, updated to address
your comment. 

In the Web Service binding spec, lines 82 and 83, replace "...the
endpoint address URI for the SCA service or reference must be provided
via the URI attribute on the binding." by "...the endpoint address
URI for an SCA reference MUST be provided as the URI attribute on the binding.
 The endpoint address URI for an SCA service or the callback element
of an SCA reference is determined as specified in section 2.1.  For
the callback element of an SCA service, the binding MUST NOT specify an
endpoint address URI.". 

  Simon 

Simon C. Nash, IBM Distinguished Engineer
Member of the IBM Academy of Technology
Tel. +44-1962-815156  Fax +44-1962-818999

"Michael Rowley" <mrowley@bea.com>

26/03/2008 19:03

To	Simon Nash/UK/IBM@IBMGB, "OASIS Bindings" <sca-bindings@lists.oasis-open.org>
cc
Subject	RE: [sca-bindings] ISSUE 19: Web Service binding should allow #wsdl.binding with reference targets

Simon, 

I like option (B) with respect to the way it is different from option (A)
(i.e. the "MUST NOT"). 

However, I have a question about this part of your proposal:
"the endpoint address URI for an SCA service or the callback element
of an SCA reference MUST be provided as specified in section 2.1"

I'm not sure how this MUST is constraining.  When I look at section
2.1, it starts with this: 
"The rules for resolving the URI at which an SCA service is hosted,
or SCA reference targets, when used with binding.ws (in precedence order)
are:" 

...and then gives the rules for determining the URI (the last step of which
points to the assembly spec's "Constructing URI" section).  

Given this, I don't understand how the writer of SCDL could write it in
a way that would fail that "MUST". 

Michael

---

From: Simon Nash [mailto:NASH@uk.ibm.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 2:08 PM
To: OASIS Bindings
Subject: RE: [sca-bindings] ISSUE 19: Web Service binding should allow
#wsdl.binding with reference targets


Mike, 
Good catch!  I had intended to include the "no service callback
URI" case but somehow I got myself too enthusiastically into "cut
and paste" mode and overlooked this.  I had intended to say that
for a service callback binding, the URI MAY be present, rather than MUST
be present.  This is not quite the same as what you are saying.  My
reason for allowing this URI to be present optionally is that there may
be cases where the callback URI address is not available at runtime, so
a URI specified here would provide a default that could be used in these
cases.  (The JMS binding explicitly allows for this.)  Alternatively,
providing a default here could be outlawed completely, as you suggest..

Here is my "take2" proposal.  I have included variants A
and B of the proposed text depending on whether or not we allow a default
URI to be specified on a service callback binding.

REFERENCES 

In our resolution of BINDINGS-17, we agreed that references with bindings
must be "bound".  For this binding.ws case of wsdlElement="...#wsdl.binding...",
the reference  becomes bound by specifying a URI attribute on the
binding.  So the existing specification text in lines 82 and 83 is
correct and needs no change. 

SERVICES 

The endpoint address URI can be provided by a URI attribute on the binding,
or it can be provided via the implict URI as defined by the Assembly specification
(see points 2 and 3 in section 2.1, lines 105 to 107).  So the existing
specification text in lines 82 and 83 is incomplete because it does not
allow for the second of these possibilities. 

CALLBACKS ON REFERENCES 

For callbacks, the service and reference roles are reversed and I believe
the rules in section 2.1 should apply to binding elements specified in
the callback element of a reference. 

CALLBACKS ON SERVICES 

For callbacks, the service and reference roles are reversed.  Normally
the callback URI would be provided by the service invoker at runtime, but
there is some rationale for optionally allowing it to be "bound"
as described in the resolution to BINDINGS-17.  If the callback URI
is provided at runtime, it would always override any URI specified in SCDL.

PROPOSAL (OPTION A) 

In the Web Service binding spec, lines 82 and 83, replace "...the
endpoint address URI for the SCA service or reference must be provided
via the URI attribute on the binding." by "...the endpoint address
URI for an SCA reference MUST be provided as the URI attribute on the binding,
and the endpoint address URI for an SCA service or the callback element
of an SCA reference MUST be provided as specified in section 2.1.  For
the callback element of an SCA service, a default endpoint address URI
MAY be provided as the URI attribute on the binding.".

PROPOSAL (OPTION B) 

In the Web Service binding spec, lines 82 and 83, replace "...the
endpoint address URI for the SCA service or reference must be provided
via the URI attribute on the binding." by "...the endpoint address
URI for an SCA reference MUST be provided as the URI attribute on the binding,
and the endpoint address URI for an SCA service or the callback element
of an SCA reference MUST be provided as specified in section 2.1.  For
the callback element of an SCA service, the binding MUST NOT specify an
endpoint address URI.". 

Simon 

Simon C. Nash, IBM Distinguished Engineer
Member of the IBM Academy of Technology
Tel. +44-1962-815156  Fax +44-1962-818999

Mike Edwards/UK/IBM@IBMGB

26/03/2008 11:45

To	"OASIS Bindings" <sca-bindings@lists.oasis-open.org>
cc
Subject	RE: [sca-bindings] ISSUE 19: Web Service binding should allow #wsdl.binding with reference targets

Simon, 

I'm not sure I follow your proposal where it deals with Callback URIs.

For a service with a callback, I would not typically expect any URI to
be present on the service relating to the 
callback, since the callback address is applied dynamically at runtime.
 So a blank URI must be allowed 
(if a URI is supplied it implies that the callback goes somewhere else
other than the client - I'd be happy 
to make this capability illegal). 

I can see the possibility of needing to express an endpoint address for
the callback on the reference - since 
a URI needs to be created for what is effectively an endpoint.

However, unless I've got confused - this is not what the text below is
saying. 


Yours,  Mike.

Strategist - Emerging Technologies, SCA & SDO.
Co Chair OASIS SCA Assembly TC.
IBM Hursley Park, Mail Point 146, Winchester, SO21 2JN, Great Britain.
Phone & FAX: +44-1962-818014    Mobile: +44-7802-467431  
Email:  mike_edwards@uk.ibm.com

Simon Nash/UK/IBM@IBMGB

25/03/2008 17:01

To	sca-bindings@lists.oasis-open.org
cc
Subject	RE: [sca-bindings] ISSUE 19: Web Service binding should allow #wsdl.binding with reference targets

This is the completion of my action to post an updated proposal for the
resolution of this issue. 

I'd like to focus on the words in lines 82 and 83 and consider the 4 cases
of references, services, reference callbacks and service callbacks.

REFERENCES 

In our resolution of BINDINGS-17, we agreed that references with bindings
must be "bound".  For this binding.ws case of wsdlElement="...#wsdl.binding...",
the reference  becomes bound by specifying a URI attribute on the
binding.  So the existing specification text in lines 82 and 83 is
correct and needs no change. 

SERVICES 

The endpoint address URI can be provided by a URI attribute on the binding,
or it can be provided via the implict URI as defined by the Assembly specification
(see points 2 and 3 in section 2.1, lines 105 to 107).  So the existing
specification text in lines 82 and 83 is incomplete because it does not
allow for the second of these possibilities. 

CALLBACKS ON REFERENCES 

For callbacks, the service and reference roles are reversed and I believe
the rules in section 2.1 should apply to binding elements specified in
the callback element of a reference. 

CALLBACKS ON SERVICES 

For callbacks, the service and reference roles are reversed and I believe
the resolution to BINDINGS-17 implies that binding elements specified in
the callback element of a service must be "bound".

PROPOSAL 

The following proposed wording change embodies the above points:

In the Web Service binding spec, lines 82 and 83, replace "...the
endpoint address URI for the SCA service or reference must be provided
via the URI attribute on the binding" by "...the endpoint address
URI for an SCA reference or the callback element of an SCA service MUST
be provided as the URI attribute on the binding, and the endpoint address
URI for an SCA service or the callback element of an SCA reference MUST
be provided as specified in section 2.1". 

Simon 

Simon C. Nash, IBM Distinguished Engineer
Member of the IBM Academy of Technology
Tel. +44-1962-815156  Fax +44-1962-818999

"Michael Rowley" <mrowley@bea.com>

28/02/2008 18:04

To	Simon Nash/UK/IBM@IBMGB, <sca-bindings@lists.oasis-open.org>
cc
Subject	RE: [sca-bindings] ISSUE 19: Web Service binding should allow #wsdl.binding with reference targets

We noted a couple things about the new text (starting at “or by ...”).
1)    
  These are primarily
relevant when the binding.ws is on a reference, not a service or callback.
2)    
  If it uses SCA targeting
mechanisms, the targeted service must provide a binding.ws that refers
to the same WSDL <binding>. 

By “same” I mean a <binding> element with the same name in a WSDL
document with the same targetNamespace as the URI used in the @wsdlElement
attribute. 

Reminder we are talking about this case: 
<reference name=”foo”> 
 <binding.ws wsdlElement=”http://some.domain/some/ws#binding(bindingName)“/>
</reference> 

Michael

---

From: Simon Nash [mailto:NASH@uk.ibm.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 5:47 AM
To: sca-bindings@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [sca-bindings] ISSUE 19: Web Service binding should allow
#wsdl.binding with reference targets 


On last week's sca-bindings call, I took an action to post an updated proposal
for the resolution of this issue, based on some words posted by Michael
Rowley in the chat room.  Here's my proposal.

In the Web Service binding spec, lines 53 and 54, replace "...the
endpoint address URI for the SCA service or reference must be provided
via the URI attribute on the binding" by "the endpoint address
URI for an SCA service MUST be provided as the URI attribute on the binding,
and the endpoint address URI for an SCA reference MUST be provided either
as the URI attribute on the binding or by the endpoint address implied
by a reference target URI or wire target URI".

Simon 

Simon C. Nash, IBM Distinguished Engineer
Member of the IBM Academy of Technology
Tel. +44-1962-815156  Fax +44-1962-818999

Eric Johnson <eric@tibco.com>

28/11/2007 21:29

To	Simon Nash/UK/IBM@IBMGB
cc	sca-bindings@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject	Re: [sca-bindings] ISSUE 19: Web Service binding should allow #wsdl.binding with reference targets

 

Logged as: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-19

-Eric.

Simon Nash wrote:
> Target:
>
> SCA Web Service Binding Specification, section 2.1 (Web Service Binding
> Schema)
>
> Description:
>
> The description of the #wsdl.binding form of the /binding.ws/@wsdlElement
> attribute says that the endpoint address URI for the SCA service or
> reference must be provided via the URI attribute on the binding.  For
> references, this seems inconsistent with the assembly spec, which supports
> binding URIs, reference targets and wire targets as alternative ways of
> connecting references to services.
>
> Proposal:
>
> In the Web Service binding spec, lines 53 and 54, replace "...the endpoint
> address URI for the SCA service or reference must be provided via the URI
> attribute on the binding" by "the endpoint address URI for the SCA service
> or reference must be provided via the URI attribute on the binding, or
> (for reference bindings only) via a reference target URI or wire target
> URI".
>
>     Simon
>
> Simon C. Nash, IBM Distinguished Engineer
> Member of the IBM Academy of Technology
> Tel. +44-1962-815156  Fax +44-1962-818999
>
>
>
>
>
> Unless stated otherwise above:
> IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number
> 741598.
> Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Unless stated otherwise above:
IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598.
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Unless stated otherwise above:
IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598.
Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU

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Unless stated otherwise above:
IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598.
Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU

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Unless stated otherwise above:
IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598.
Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU

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Unless stated otherwise above:
IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598.
Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU

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Unless stated otherwise above:
IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598.
Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU