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Subject: Raw chat log of 2008-12-11 call


Simon Holdsworth: Audio conference:

Meeting Number: * 913929 * (press * before and after the digits)

Phone numbers:

Austria = Vienna 026822056419
Belgium = Brussels 022901709
China Toll Free = China North 108007121722, China South 108001201722
Denmark = Copenhagen 32714982
France = Paris 0170994364, Lyon 0426840196, Marseilles 0488915310
Germany = Berlin 030726167296, Frankfurt 069710445413, Hamburg 
040809020620, Munich 089244432767, Stuttgart 0711490813212, Dusseldorf 
021154073845
India Toll Free = 0008001006703
Ireland = Dublin 014367612
Italy = Milan 0230413007, Rome 06452108288, Turin 01121792100
Japan = Tokyo 0357675037
Netherlands = Amsterdam 0207965349
Portugal = Lisbon 211200415
Russia Toll Free = 81080022074011
Spain = Barcelona: 934923140, Madrid: 917889793
Sweden = Stockholm 0850520404
Switzerland = Geneva 0225927186
UK Toll Free = 08003581667
UK Toll = London 02071542988, Manchester 01612500379, Birmingham 
01212604587
USA Toll Free = 18665289390
USA Toll = 19543344789

Simon Holdsworth: Agenda:

Simon Holdsworth: 1. Opening

Introductions
Roll call
Scribe assignment

Top 10 on the scribe list:

Nimish Hathalia TIBCO Software Inc.
Plamen Pavlov SAP AG
Laurent Domenech TIBCO Software Inc.
Anish Karmarkar Oracle Corporation
Tom Rutt Fujitsu Limited
Eric Johnson TIBCO Software Inc.
Ashok Malhotra Oracle Corporation
Khanderao Kand Oracle Corporation
David Booz IBM
Bryan Aupperle IBM

Agenda bashing

2. Approval of the minutes from 1st-4th December virtual F2F

http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/30294/SCA%20Bindings%20minutes%202008-12-01.doc 


3. Actions

20080717-4 [Sanjay Patil] Provide examples for issue 24
20080717-6 [Vladimir Savchenko] Send out a proposal for how WSDL 
bindings and portTypes relate to each other. Target: 14th August
20080904-1 [Editors] update SOAP intent as per email 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200808/msg00072.html
20081016-1 [Editors] Update JCA bindings spec to clarify there are no 
may provides or always provides intents

4. New Issues

Please note, as per resolution on 9th October 2008, new issues received 
on the mailing list after Noon GMT 1st November can only be opened using 
the same voting rules as re-opening a closed issue (2/3 majority of a 
full TC vote)

No new issues

5. Open Issue Discussion

Open issues with proposed resolutions:

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-11
v"Formal" WSDL generation is unclear, ambiguous, and incomplete
Raiser: Eric Johnson, owner: Eric Johnson, Anish Karmarkar
Status: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200812/msg00054.html

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-31
What is a "plain name" for a connection factories or activation specs, 
and how is one distinguished from a JNDI name?
Raiser: Eric Johnson, owner: Simon Holdsworth
Status: Updated proposal in 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200812/msg00027.html

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-40
Clarify rules around combination of destination, CF and AS elements
Raiser: Simon Holdsworth, owner: Simon Holdsworth
Status: Latest email: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200812/msg00028.html

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-42
Clarify default data binding for JMS
Raiser: Simon Holdsworth, owner: Simon Holdsworth
Status: Proposed resolution in email: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200812/msg00007.html

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-44
Update binding.jms spec for wireFormat/operationSelection elements
Raiser: Simon Holdsworth, owner: Simon Holdsworth
Status: Latest email: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200810/msg00073.html

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-55
WSDL 2.0 support
Raiser: Bryan Aupperle, owner: Editors
Status: Proposal in issue

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-57
Add a section documenting naming convention + be consistent on naming 
intents (binding.ws)
Raiser: Anish Karmarkar, owner: Editors
Status: Proposal in issue

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-58
Add a section documenting naming convention + be consistent on naming 
intents (binding.jca)
Raiser: Anish Karmarkar, owner: Editors
Status: Proposal in issue

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-59
Add a section documenting naming convention + be consistent on naming 
intents (binding.jms)
Raiser: Anish Karmarkar, owner: Editors
Status: Proposal in issue

Open issues with identified resolution owner:

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-2
How should SCA callback semantics be carried over Web Services?
Raiser: Simon Nash, owner: Anish Karmarkar
Status: Proposed resolution: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200812/msg00043.html

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-21
Support for callback and conversation ID-s in bindings
Raiser: Peter Peshev, owner Peter Peshev
Status: Proposed resolution in issue
Notes: As for BINDINGS-2, this is waiting for clarification around 
conversations at the assembly level

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-39
JMS callback specification does not cater for callbacks using other 
bindings
Raiser: Simon Holdsworth, owner Simon Holdsworth
Status: Complete resolution proposal required

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-43
Update binding.ws spec for wireFormat/operationSelection elements
Raiser: Simon Holdsworth, owner: Anish Karmarkar
Status: Specific resolution text required.

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-45
Update binding.jca spec for wireFormat/operationSelection elements
Raiser: Simon Holdsworth, owner: Piotr Przybylski
Status: Specific resolution text required.

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-54
Endpoint URI algorithm is unclear
Raiser: Eric Johnson, owner: Eric Johnson
Status: Initial proposal in JIRA.

Open issues with no identified resolution owner:

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-22
Bindings specifications should provide exemplary Implementations for 
Callbacks and Conversations
Raiser: Mike Edwards
Status: No proposed resolution
Notes: As for BINDINGS-2, this is waiting for clarification around 
conversations at the assembly level

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-23
@wsdlElement definition needs clarification on "equivalent" and use of 
WSDL 2.0 constructs
Raiser: Eric Johnson
Status: Specific resolution text required

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-24
Which wire did a message arrive on?
Raiser: Sanjay Patil
Status: Waiting for examples from Sanjay as per 20080717-4

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-25
Is it required that every implementation of binding.ws support the soap 
intent?
Raiser: Anish Karmarkar
Status: No current proposal. Latest email: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200807/msg00006.html

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-29
Properties on Bindings
Raiser: Piotr Przybylski
Status: No current proposal; defer until Policy 15 (External Attachment) 
is resolved

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-48
How are mayProvide intents on bindings satisfied
Raiser: Ashok Malhotra
Status: No current proposal; latest email: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200810/msg00041.html

5. AOB

anish: Scribe: Anish

anish: Topic:Approval of the minutes from 1st-4th December virtual F2F

http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/30294/SCA%20Bindings%20minutes%202008-12-01.doc

anish: Minutes approved w/o

anish: Topic: Actions

anish: no change to the pending AIs

anish: No new issues for today

anish: Topic: Issue 11

anish: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-11
v"Formal" WSDL generation is unclear, ambiguous, and incomplete
Raiser: Eric Johnson, owner: Eric Johnson, Anish Karmarkar
Status: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200812/msg00054.html

anish: Eric explains his response to Mike's comments

anish: (the response is in the email at msg00054 in 200812)

Mike Edwards: Intents are always a restriction

anish: In section 4.2.2, what should be the normativeness of SOAP 1.1 
binding or SOAP 1.2 binding

Mike Edwards: if there are intents present - they DO restirct what can 
be done

anish forgot i was the scribe

Mike Edwards:  easily done when you're involved in the debate

anish: anish: i don't think we should restrict what a runtime should do 
outside of metadata

anish: SimonH: perhaps anish should raise a separate issue

anish: SimonN: we do need a clarification on section 4.1

anish: Action: Anish to open a new issue regarding the MUSTs in section 4.1

anish: SimonH: it should be easy wrt 4.1 to write a test for this. eg: 
send a soap 1.1 msg and make sure it succeed and send soap 1.2 msg and 
make sure it fails

anish: Eric: SimonN had a proposal for restating a stmt, we didn't 
capture it

anish: Eric: the last issue is about the NS on rpc/literal

anish: ... the pattern defines a type and a NS is needed for the element

anish: ... four options called out

Simon Nash: Bindings for SOAP 1.1 MUST be provided and additional 
bindings MAY be provided, unless policy is applied that explicitly 
restricts this.

anish: ... anish and I had a discussion on it and I agreed with him that 
we ought to say something

anish: ... of the 4 options, 1st is to say nothing the other three 
options are to say something

Simon Nash: take 2: Bindings for SOAP 1.1 MUST be provided and 
additional bindings MAY be provided, unless explicitly restricted by policy.

anish: Eric: would be useful for using a NS associated with the binding 
for dispatching case

anish: Anish: want to made sure that it is clear what messages to send 
to the service

anish: ... if the generated wsdl is available and the clients get that 
then it should probably be ok, but there is also a usecase of unmanaged 
client code that has access to SCA metadata

anish: Eric: implementations may want to do late binding and generate 
WSDL bidnings that contain additional policies etc

anish: SimonH: is it possible that the portType may have additional 
information that restrict the choice of NS. Such as PT generated by JAX-WS

anish ping

anish: anish: very good question, doesn't jax-ws have annotations for this?

anish: Eric: i should take an action to research that

anish: Eric: we could say that unless there is additional metadata that 
tells you what to do use 'this' uri

anish: Action: Eric to research whether JAX-WS portType generation 
restricts the NS used in rpc-literal

anish: Topic: Issue 31

anish: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-31
What is a "plain name" for a connection factories or activation specs, 
and how is one distinguished from a JNDI name?
Raiser: Eric Johnson, owner: Simon Holdsworth
Status: Updated proposal in 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200812/msg00027.html

anish: Simon explains the issue

anish: Proposal:

anish: rename "name" attribute to "jndiName".

Describe the jndiName attribute (in this example for a Destination) as 
follows:

     * binding.jms/destination/@jndiName  the JNDI name of the JMS 
Destination that the binding uses to send or receive messages.  The 
behaviour of this attribute is determined by the value of the @create 
attribute as follows:
           o If the @create attribute value is "always" then the 
@jndiName attribute is optional; if the destination cannot be created at 
the specified location then the SCA runtime MUST raise an error.  If the 
@jndiName attribute is omitted this specification places no restriction 
on the JNDI location of the created resource.
           o If the @create attribute value is "ifnotexist" then the 
@jndiName attribute MUST specify the location of the possibly existing 
destination; if the destination does not exist at this location, but 
cannot be created there then the SCA runtime MUST raise an error.  If 
the jndiName refers to an existing resource other than a JMS Destination 
of the specified type then the SCA runtime MUST raise an error.
           o If the @create attribute value is "never" then the 
@jndiName attribute MUST specify the location of the existing 
destination; If the destination is not present at the location, or the 
location refers to a resource other than a JMS Destination of the 
specified type then the SCA runtime MUST raise an error.

       The "plain name" referred to in the current spec is really there 
to be an attribute of the created resource.  I think it makes more sense 
then for that to be amongst the properties that are children of the 
element, and not a standard attribute.

       Remove the sentences that say "This can either be a JNDI name or 
a plain connection factory name.".  as they are currently describing 
elements, not the name attribute of those elements and so are just 
incorrect.

       Update the examples to rename the "name" attribute to "jndiName", 
and/or move to inside the resource element for creation examples as 
appropriate.

       Update the XML schema to rename "name" to "jndiName", and make 
the value type "anyURI".

anish: Simon walks through the proposal

anish: Eric: no comments, thanks for clarifying

anish: Eric moves Bryan seconds to accept the proposal at 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200812/msg00027.html 
to resolve issue 31

anish: Motion passes w/o, issue 31 is resolved

anish: next call will be the last one this year

anish: SimonH: next week we'll have a discussion on our next f2f

anish: Meeting adjourned


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