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Subject: Raw minutes of conf-call 2009-06-18


Simon Holdsworth: Audio conference: 

Meeting Number: * 913929 * (press * before and after the digits) 

Phone numbers: 

Austria = Vienna 026822056419 
Belgium = Brussels 022901709 
China Toll Free = China North 108007121722, China South 108001201722 
Denmark = Copenhagen 32714982 
France = Paris 0170994364, Lyon 0426840196, Marseilles 0488915310 
Germany = Berlin 030726167296, Frankfurt 069710445413, Hamburg 040809020620, Munich 089244432767, Stuttgart 0711490813212, Dusseldorf 021154073845 
India Toll Free = 0008001006703 
Ireland = Dublin 014367612 
Italy = Milan 0230413007, Rome 06452108288, Turin 01121792100 
Japan = Tokyo 0357675037 
Netherlands = Amsterdam 0207965349 
Portugal = Lisbon 211200415 
Russia Toll Free = 81080022074011 
Spain = Barcelona: 934923140, Madrid: 917889793 
Sweden = Stockholm 0850520404 
Switzerland = Geneva 0225927186 
UK Toll Free = 08003581667 
UK Toll = London 02071542988, Manchester 01612500379, Birmingham 01212604587 
USA Toll Free = 18665289390 
USA Toll = 19543344789
Simon Holdsworth: 1. Opening 

Introductions 
Roll call 
Scribe assignment 

Top of the scribe list: 
Plamen Pavlov SAP AG 
Eric Johnson TIBCO Software Inc. 
Simon Nash Individual 
Anish Karmarkar Oracle Corporation 
Tom Rutt Fujitsu Limited 
Martin Chapman Oracle Corporation 
Ashok Malhotra Oracle Corporation 
David Booz IBM 
Bryan Aupperle IBM 
Piotr Przybylski IBM 

Agenda bashing 

2. Approval of the minutes from 11th June 

http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/32904/SCA%20Bindings%20minutes%202009-06-11.doc 

3. Actions 

20090211-4 [General] Write up HTTP binding use cases 
20090528-1 [Mike Edwards] Raise a PR issues against Policy intent algorithm point 7 to address the SOAP 1.1 defaulting use case 
20090528-2 [Anish Karmarkar] Produce updated draft for BINDINGS-2 cleaning up protocol composition and making sure all keywords are part of conformance statements 
20090604-1 [Editors] Publish updated CD02 revisions using the agreed naming 
20090611-1 [Anish Karmarkar] Remove colon from Web Service Binding CD02 Rev2 around conformance points BWS40005, BWS40006 and BWS40007 
20090611-2 [Simon Holdsworth] Poll TC membership to generate contributors list for each binding spec. 
20090611-3 [David Booz] Produce proposals for issues BINDINGS-76, 77 and 78 

4. New Issues 

Please note, as per resolution on 9th October 2008, new issues received on the mailing list after Noon GMT 1st November can only be opened using the same voting rules as re-opening a closed issue (2/3 majority of a full TC vote) 

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-79 
BWS20016 should not be normative 
Proposed resolution in issue, with update in http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200906/msg00067.html 

5. Open Issue and PRD Schedule 

Discuss priority of issues 76, 77, 78, 79 

Discuss proposed schedule reset: 

Public review draft available for TC comments June 11th (pending updates for final must have issues) 
Remaining must have issues resolved by June 18th 
Public review draft vote June 25th 
Test assertions complete one month beyond PRD - July 30th 
Test cases one month after that - August 27th 

Current CD03 candidates 

Web Services: 
DOC: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/32973/sca-binding-ws-1.1-spec-cd02-rev4.doc 
PDF: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/32974/sca-binding-ws-1.1-spec-cd02-rev4.pdf 
Diff from CD02: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/32900/sca-binding-ws-1.1-spec-cd02-rev3-diff.pdf 
Diff rev3 to rev 4: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bindings/download.php/32975/sca-binding-ws-1.1-spec-cd02-rev3-rev4-diff.pdf 

JMS: 
DOC: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/32635/sca-binding-jms-1.1-spec-cd02-rev2.doc 
PDF: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/32790/sca-binding-jms-1.1-spec-cd02-rev2.pdf 
Diff from CD02: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200906/msg00028.html 

JCA: 
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/32638/sca-binding-jca-1.1-spec-cd02-rev2.doc 
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/32791/sca-binding-jca-1.1-spec-cd02-rev2.pdf 
Diff from CD02: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200906/msg00028.html 

Issues with proposed resolutions: 7 
Issues with identified owner, no resolution: 0 
Issues with no identified owner: 0 

Survey outlook for issues with no proposed resolution (marked with * in this list) 

Anish Karmarkar: 2 (pri 2) 
Simon Holdsworth: 74 (pri 1), 75 (pri 1), 48 (pri 3) 
David Booz: 76, 77, 78 

8. Open Issue Discussion 

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-74 
JMS and JCA binding conformance section insufficient (JMS) 
Raiser: Simon Holdsworth, owner: Simon Holdsworth 
Priority: 1 
Status: Proposed resolution in http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/32854/sca-binding-jms-1.1-spec-cd02-rev2-issue74.doc 

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-75 
JMS and JCA binding conformance section insufficient (JCA) 
Raiser: Simon Holdsworth, owner: Simon Holdsworth 
Priority: 1 
Status: Proposed resolution in http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/32853/sca-binding-jca-1.1-spec-cd02-rev2-issue75.doc 
Latest email: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200906/msg00036.html 

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-2 
How should SCA callback semantics be carried over Web Services? 
Raiser: Simon Nash, owner: Anish Karmarkar 
Priority: 2 
Status: Latest proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200906/msg00074.html 
Latest email: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200906/msg00077.html 

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-76 
binding.ws schema uses ##any instead of ##other 
Raiser: David Booz, owner: David Booz 
Priority: to be assigned 
Status: Proposed resolution in email: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200906/msg00084.html 

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-77 
binding.jms schema uses for schema attribute extensibility 
Raiser: David Booz, owner: David Booz 
Priority: to be assigned 
Status: Proposed resolution in email: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200906/msg00086.html 

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-78 
binding.jca schema uses ##any instead of ##other 
Raiser: David Booz, owner: David Booz 
Priority: to be assigned. 
Status: Proposed resolution in email: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200906/msg00085.html 

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-48 
How are mayProvide intents on bindings satisfied 
Raiser: Ashok Malhotra, owner: Simon Holdsworth 
Priority: 3 
Status: Proposed resolution: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200903/msg00005.html 
Latest email: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200903/msg00059.html 

9. AOB 

------------------------------------------------------------------- 

*Revolving list of scribes* 

Plamen Pavlov SAP AG 
Eric Johnson TIBCO Software Inc. 
Simon Nash Individual 
Anish Karmarkar Oracle Corporation 
Tom Rutt Fujitsu Limited 
Martin Chapman Oracle Corporation 
Ashok Malhotra Oracle Corporation 
David Booz IBM 
Bryan Aupperle IBM 
Piotr Przybylski IBM
anonymous morphed into anish
Eric Johnson: Scribe: Eric
Eric Johnson: Topic: Agenda review
Eric Johnson: (No comments)
Eric Johnson: Topic: Approval of minutes
Eric Johnson: (No comments)
Eric Johnson: No objections to approving the minutes, minutes are approved.
Eric Johnson: Topic: Action items
Eric Johnson: 20090528-1 - still pending
Eric Johnson: 20090528-2 - completed
Eric Johnson: 20090604-1 - pending
Eric Johnson: 20090611-1 - Anish remembers changing it....
Eric Johnson: 20090611-2 - done
Eric Johnson: 20090611-3 - done
Eric Johnson: 20090611-1 - Anish verified - it is done.
Eric Johnson: Topic: New issues
Eric Johnson: (Not enough people to open new issues)
Eric Johnson: Eric: Question - should the issue raised on the mailing list about the normative statement about metadata be addressed as an issue.
Eric Johnson: Simon H: Yes.
Eric Johnson: Topic: Open issues affecting schedule
Eric Johnson: Simon H: Hope to resolve issues today, and vote on PR next week.
Eric Johnson: Anish: Is issue #2 part of that?
Eric Johnson: Simon H: If we resolved issue today, then it could be possible, but don't want to keep rolling for additional weeks.
Eric Johnson: Anish: OK.
Eric Johnson: Simon H: Is the aim to do test assertions and test cases in a month each a reasonable timeline?  Assembly experience?
Eric Johnson: Mike E: Could be. Really don't know.
anish minor echo going on ...
Eric Johnson: Dave: Other specs have APIs to test, we don't seem to have this.
Eric Johnson: Simon H: Sounds like it is uncertain, and we don't know how much time we're going to be spending on PR comments.
Eric Johnson: Topic: Open issues
Eric Johnson: Bindings 74
Eric Johnson: (Simon going through changes in document linked immediately previous)
Eric Johnson: Anish: In section 8.1 there is a reference to a definitions document, but there is no equivalent in WS binding....
Eric Johnson: Simon H: Does binding ws need this?
Eric Johnson: Anish: We don't disallow it.  Could occur there.
Eric Johnson: Simon H: We could do that as an update to binding ws as well.
Mike Edwards: I disagree with Anish's point about binding.ws in <definitions/> documents
Mike Edwards: I don't think that the Binding.ws spec has anything to say about that
Eric Johnson: Eric: Think the last sentence in section 8.1 "and MUST comply with all the applicable requirements specified in this specification." is uncharacteristically vague compared to our other normative statements.
Mike Edwards: but this is off-topic as we're discussing a bindin.jms issue
Eric Johnson: Mike: Shouldn't the required from that statement actually be someplace else in the document as well?
Eric Johnson: ... could we just point to the appendix if we do that....
Simon Holdsworth: suggestion: "MUST comply with all the applicable requirements specified in this specification." -> "MUST comply with all statements in Appendix B: Conformance Items related to an SCA JMS Binding XML document, notably all "MUST" statements have to be implemented"
anish any one else getting an echo
Dave Booz yes
Eric Johnson: Eric: We never use the "document" as the target of a conformance statement.
Eric Johnson: Anish: We have requirements on elements and attributes, which net out to requirements on the document.
Simon Holdsworth: suggestion: "MUST comply with all the applicable requirements specified in this specification." -> "MUST comply with all statements in Appendix B: Conformance Items related to elements and attributes in an SCA JMS Binding XML document, notably all "MUST" statements have to be implemented"
anish: i would like to suggest that whatever we adopt here, we port it to binding.ws as well
Dave Booz: +1
Eric Johnson: Simon H: Is the statement above better?
Eric Johnson: Eric: Seems better.
Eric Johnson: Simon H: Primary yardstick - is this good enough for PR?
Simon Holdsworth: From binding.ws spec : The <binding.ws> element MUST conform to the XML schema defined in sca-binding-webservice.xsd. [BWS20024]
Eric Johnson: Eric: Good enough for me.
Eric Johnson: Simon H: We need to add to the proposal the statement I just pasted.
Simon Holdsworth: Add to this proposal: The <binding.jms> element MUST conform to the XML schema defined in sca-binding-jms.xsd. [BJMXXXXXX]
Simon Holdsworth: Also delete BJM80001 from appendix B
anish: Web Services XML Binding Schema: sca-binding-498 webservice.xsd
anish: JMS XML Binding Schema: sca-binding-jms.xsd
Simon Holdsworth: Update Appendix A title to: "A.JMS XML Binding Schema: sca-binding-jms.xsd"
Eric Johnson: Proposed motion: Move that we resolve issue 74 with the changes of http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/32854/sca-binding-jms-1.1-spec-cd02-rev2-issue74.doc, and the following changes:
 * Change sentence: MUST comply with all the applicable requirements specified in this specification."
  to -> "MUST comply with all statements in Appendix B: Conformance Items related to elements and attributes in an SCA JMS Binding XML document, notably all "MUST" statements have to be implemented"
 * Add sentence:  The <binding.jms> element MUST conform to the XML schema defined in sca-binding-jms.xsd. [BJMXXXXXX]
 * Remove BJM80001 from appendix 
 * Update appendix A title to "A.JMS XML Binding Schema: sca-binding-jms.xsd"
Eric Johnson: Proposed motion: Move that we resolve issue 74 with the changes of http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/32854/sca-binding-jms-1.1-spec-cd02-rev2-issue74.doc, and the following changes:
 * Change sentence: MUST comply with all the applicable requirements specified in this specification."
  to -> "MUST comply with all statements in Appendix B: Conformance Items related to elements and attributes in an SCA JMS Binding XML document, notably all "MUST" statements have to be implemented"
 * Add sentence immediately after the psuedo schema in section 3:  The <binding.jms> element MUST conform to the XML schema defined in sca-binding-jms.xsd. [BJMXXXXXX]
 * Remove BJM80001 from appendix B
 * Update appendix A title to "A.JMS XML Binding Schema: sca-binding-jms.xsd"
Eric Johnson: Eric Moves that we resolve issue 74 with the changes of http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/32854/sca-binding-jms-1.1-spec-cd02-rev2-issue74.doc, and the following changes:
 * Change sentence: MUST comply with all the applicable requirements specified in this specification."
  to -> "MUST comply with all statements in Appendix B: Conformance Items related to elements and attributes in an SCA JMS Binding XML document, notably all "MUST" statements have to be implemented"
 * Add sentence immediately after the psuedo schema in section 3:  The <binding.jms> element MUST conform to the XML schema defined in sca-binding-jms.xsd. [BJMXXXXXX]
 * Remove BJM80001 from appendix B
 * Update appendix A title to "A.JMS XML Binding Schema: sca-binding-jms.xsd"
Eric Johnson: Dave seconds
Eric Johnson: No objections.  Motion resolved by unanimous consent.
Eric Johnson: Topic: Issue 75
Eric Johnson: Simon H: Proposal suffers from same issues as JMS issue resolved.
anish: here is the port to JCA binding:
anish: * Change sentence: MUST comply with all the applicable requirements specified in this specification."
  to -> "MUST comply with all statements in Appendix B: Conformance Items related to elements and attributes in an SCA JCA Binding XML document, notably all "MUST" statements have to be implemented"
 * Add sentence immediately after the psuedo schema in section 2:  The <binding.jca> element MUST conform to the XML schema defined in sca-binding-jca.xsd. [BJCXXXXXX]
 * Remove BJC70001 from appendix B
 * Update appendix A title to "A.JCA XML Binding Schema: sca-binding-jca.xsd"
Eric Johnson: Anish moves to resolve issue 75 with the document that Simon linked above, with the additional changes posted immediately previous.
Eric Johnson: Dave seconds.
Eric Johnson: No objections to unanimous consent.  Motion passes.
Eric Johnson: Issue resolved.
Eric Johnson: Anish: two changes to binding ws.  Want to see if people want them.  Instead of being vague, talking about elements and attributes, and also talking about definitions document.
Eric Johnson: Simon: Mike are you in agreement?
Eric Johnson: Mike: How does the binding.ws read on the definitions file.
Eric Johnson: Anish: binding.ws can appear in the definitions file.  We have a requirement on the structure of that element with the schema and spec.
Eric Johnson: ... don't we want to make sure that you cannot put a binding.ws element in the definitions file and have it not conform to the schema.
Eric Johnson: Mike: Reason that the definitions file can contain binding elements is to establish a template.
Eric Johnson: ... binding.ws doesn't do that.  So is there any meaning there.
Eric Johnson: Dave: Suppose there could be if a vendor extends that templating mechanism to binding.ws?
Eric Johnson: Anish: Extends past the spec.  We constraint extensibility elsewhere, though. For example, not allowing SCA namespace extensibility elements....
Eric Johnson: ... I don't foresee a use, but some vendor might to do something.
Eric Johnson: ... maybe we don't let it appear in definitions?
Eric Johnson: Dave: Don't want to go that far.
Eric Johnson: Anish: We define binding.ws, we define where you can use it, and what it means to use it there.
Mike Edwards: I dont feel so strongly on this point
Eric Johnson: Eric: We're not stating any implications of what it means to put binding.ws in the definitions file, so why do we need to put requirements on putting it there.
Mike Edwards: I will not oppose a resolution that includes the fix
Eric Johnson: Anish: Can the other change be done editorially?
Eric Johnson: Simon H: Any objection to editorial change to align the statement about attributes and elements?
Eric Johnson: (None registered)
Eric Johnson: Mike : Won't object to both fixes.
Eric Johnson: Eric: I'm opposed to gratuitous overspecification.
Eric Johnson: Simon H: Please look at proposed resolution to issue 79 so that it can be resolved.
Eric Johnson: Mike E: We can work on the email list to get copies of the documents with the resolutions applied.
Eric Johnson: Simon H: Yes, if we can get those copies, then we can resolve.
Eric Johnson: ... can extend the call 1/2 hr or 1hr earlier.
Eric Johnson: Anish: Can't do that.
Eric Johnson: Simon: Alternative Tuesday or Wednesday.
Eric Johnson: Dave: Wednesday might be good.
Eric Johnson: Anish: Cannot do Wed.
Eric Johnson: ... can do Tues.
Eric Johnson: Anish: 7AM pacific before assembly call?
Eric Johnson: Meeting next Tuesday, 7AM PST.
Eric Johnson: Anish: Don't need CD docs for Tues.
Eric Johnson: Simon H: Right - just issue resolutions.
Eric Johnson: ... for Tuesday.


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