Hi Mary,
Mary McRae wrote:
FCED6CDC-ED64-4CDC-B71E-3E5C6C9895AC@oasis-open.org"
type="cite">Neither does it say that you can change them. While I
understand why certain warnings are explicitly stated (one of my
favorites, from an old tank technical documentation project: "Do not
stand in front of gun turret while in motion. Severe injury or death
may result") this is a case of common sense. In order for any given URI
to always identify the most recent version of a spec, it must be
consistently applied.
Actually, my take is that "common sense" does not fit here. As a
member of the TC, I had utterly no clue that a rather small decision in
the very early days of the TC - about what to name the files, was
something that we'd be stuck with forever. I don't remember you
standing up and reminding us that this was the case. And honestly, as
someone new to the TC process, I thought I had much bigger
problems to worry about - like making sure I was clear on Robert's
Rules of Order, and myriad other implications of voting on a committee
draft.
And common sense doesn't apply since this apparent rule flies in the
face of all the web technologies I've ever worked with.
We are not asking to remove or change a URL, we are asking to add one.
So yes, it really does seem like a reasonable request to me. As
someone who has spent a long time working on specs, I generally
interpret that if the rules don't explicitly preclude something, it
stands a very good chance that that was intentional. So if I apply the
"common sense" that I apply to virtually all other rules I encounter in
my business life, it would seem that *adding* an additional "latest"
URL would be well within the realm of possibility.
Consider me very much confused by this whole issue.
-Eric.
FCED6CDC-ED64-4CDC-B71E-3E5C6C9895AC@oasis-open.org"
type="cite">
Regards,
Mary
On Jun 30, 2009, at 4:22 PM, Simon Nash wrote:
Mary,
Are these rules documented in the OASIS Naming Guidelines? I have been
reading through the guidelines and I can't find these rules anywhere.
If these rules are not documented, how could the TC have known about
them
before choosing URIs for the first published versions?
I found the following description of the latest URI in ref. [1]:
A bookmarkable, version-agnostic, generic URI serving as a URI alias
which is always associated with the latest/current specification
instance,
thus having a changing referent; it serves to identify and directly
locate each successive published instance of a developing
specification,
through time [Label: Latest Version]
This seems only to require that the "latest URI" on the cover of any
version
of the spec will always locate the most recent version of the spec.
I also saw the following, also in ref. [1]:
Mapping from version-specific (This Version) to version-agnostic
(Latest Version) is specified on a case-by-case basis, per the wishes
of the TC. As of 2006-09-22, OASIS IT staff had installed a prototype
implementation to support versatile server configuration settings that
establish mappings between arbitrary URIs and system resources
represented
by files and directories/paths. Based upon the results of testing of
this
implementation or its successor, OASIS Staff will make recommendations
to TCs about a set of best-practice alternatives for constructing
"Latest
Version" URIs, and methods for ensuring that the server configuration
is
always updated to reflect the TC's declared mappings. In the interim,
TCs
should consult with the TC Administration to negotiate agreement about
creating URI aliases and other mappings.
I presume the versatile settings for mappings described here refer to
symlinks. Given that OASIS has this technical capability which can
serve
the same document under multiple URLs, what is the reason for refusing
to use it to implement the TC's request?
Simon
[1]
http://docs.oasis-open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/metadata04.html#specURIs
Mary McRae wrote:
My apologies for not being more precise.
The URIs as established on the first publication to docs.oasis-open.org
are those that must remain in the actual text on the document cover, in
the hypertext link behind that text, and the established symlink.
Neither multiple symlinks nor redirects will be maintained.
Regards,
Mary
On Jun 30, 2009, at 11:50 AM, Simon Nash wrote:
Mary,
I understand that OASIS requires the latest URLs that have been
established to remain for the life of the document. Both of the
options in my email satisfy this requirement.
Simon
Mary McRae wrote:
Hi Simon,
Neither of the approaches are possible. The latest URLs that have been
established must remain for the life of the document.
Regards,
Mary
Mary P McRae
Director, Standards Development
Technical Committee Administrator
OASIS: Advancing open standards for the information society
email: mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org
web: www.oasis-open.org
twitter: fiberartisan #oasisopen
phone: 1.603.232.9090
Standards are like parachutes: they work best when they're open.
On Jun 30, 2009, at 10:57 AM, Simon Nash wrote:
Mary,
The Bindings TC discussed the naming issue and has decided to revert
to the previous names in the short term so that the process of getting
to public review can be expedited and is not blocked on the naming
issue. The Bindings TC also decided to continue to pursue the adoption
of its previously agreed new naming convention with OASIS TC Admin.
The TC would like to begin publishing new versions of its documents
using the new naming convention and new form of URLs as soon as
possible. For documents that have already been published using the
existing naming convention, the TC would like to leave these in place
at their current URLs.
For each of the affected documents, the TC would like to create
new "latest" URLs that match the new naming conventions. For the
current "latest" URLs, there are two options:
1) For each of the affected documents, use an HTTP redirect from
the current "latest" URL to the new "latest" URL. These redirects
can be set up as a one-time operation, so that as the documents
referenced by the new-form "latest" URLs change in the future,
these documents will automatically also become available at the
current old-form "latest" URLs.
2) Every time a new document is published, both the new-form
"latest" URL and the old-form "latest" URL would be re-linked to
point to the new document. This does not require any HTTP
redirects, but it does require additional re-linking of "latest"
URLs each time new versions of the documents are published.
The TC would be willing to accept either of these approaches. Which
of them would be most convenient for OASIS TC Admin and IT Services?
Simon
Mary McRae wrote:
Hi Simon,
The URLs for latest are not intended to be changed once established. I
maintain a single set of symlinks for each specification.
Regards,
Mary
On May 28, 2009, at 11:12 AM, Simon Holdsworth wrote:
Mary, what is the issue with having both forms of "latest" URL working?
With CD02, we have the following files that are published, for example
for binding.jms:
Existing URLs for published CD01 version:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-jmsbinding-1.1-spec-cd01.html
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-jmsbinding-1.1-spec-cd01.doc
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-jmsbinding-1.1-spec-cd01.pdf
Within those documents, the latest version URLs:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-jmsbinding-1.1-spec.html
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-jmsbinding-1.1-spec.doc
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-jmsbinding-1.1-spec.pdf
Requested URLs for published CD02 version:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-binding-jms-1.1-spec-cd02.html
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-binding-jms-1.1-spec-cd02.doc
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-binding-jms-1.1-spec-cd02.pdf
Requested latest URLs:
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-binding-jms-1.1-spec.html
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-binding-jms-1.1-spec.doc
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-binding-jms-1.1-spec.pdf
So in order to support the new spelling of the latest URLs, I agree
that we should not change the existing documents. That means that we
need to:
1) make the existing latest URLs point at the CD02 versions of the
documents. I assume you would have to do that anyway.
2) create new latest URLs that point at the CD02 versions of the
documents. This does entail some duplication of work if it not
possible to redirect the URLs in 1) to these as a one-off process.
Regards, Simon
Simon Holdsworth
STSM, SCA Bindings Architect; Master Inventor; OASIS SCA Bindings TC
Chair
MP 211, IBM UK Labs, Hursley Park, Winchester SO21 2JN, UK
Tel +44-1962-815059 (Internal 245059) Fax +44-1962-816898
Internet - Simon_Holdsworth@uk.ibm.com
<mailto:Simon_Holdsworth@uk.ibm.com>
*Mary McRae <mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org
<mailto:mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org>>*
28/05/2009 15:16
To
Anish Karmarkar <Anish.Karmarkar@oracle.com
<mailto:Anish.Karmarkar@oracle.com>>
cc
Simon Holdsworth/UK/IBM@IBMGB,
sca-bindings@lists.oasis-open.org <mailto:sca-bindings@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject
Re: [sca-bindings] Re: CD02 packages for SCA Bindings specs ready for
publication
Hi Anish,
It has nothing to do with Kavi; these files are in a separate web
space. It's an IT decision / access / management issue.
Mary
On May 28, 2009, at 1:01 AM, Anish Karmarkar wrote:
> Mary McRae wrote:
>> Hi Simon,
>> I'm sorry - it looks like that never made it into my queue.
My >> apologies!
>> We can't change the name of the latest version once
established - >> that breaks the reasoning behind them. We never
edit files once >> they've been uploaded, and we have no idea
how many people may have >> downloaded the file and will expect
the link to work going forward. >> We also don't support
redirects.
>
> Why not?
> Is that a limitation of KAVI or is it a OASIS policy.
> Not supporting redirects on the Web seems very strange to me.
>
> -Anish
> --
>
>> It's okay that the current filename and the latest version
>> filename are slightly different from my perspective; in all
>> likelihood people are clicking on the link and not paying too
much >> attention to the filename. The new filename doesn't seem
to be that >> different from the old one that should someone
have downloaded the >> file, they would be misled by the naming.
>> Let me know if you want me to edit the files or if you will
>> provide updated copies for uploading.
>> Regards,
>> Mary
>> Mary P McRae
>> Director, Standards Development
>> Technical Committee Administrator
>> OASIS: Advancing open standards for the information society
>> email: mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org
<mailto:mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org>
<mailto:mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org> >> web:
www.oasis-open.org <http://www.oasis-open.org>
<http://www.oasis-open.org>
>> twitter: fiberartisan #oasisopen
>> phone: 1.603.232.9090
>> Standards are like parachutes: they work best when they're
open.
>> On May 22, 2009, at 5:17 AM, Simon Holdsworth wrote:
>>>
>>> Mary,
>>>
>>> I sent this note some time ago, but did not get a
response, and I >>> can't see any of the updated versions
available on the OASIS site.
>>>
>>> I'd appreciate it if you could let me know when these
updated >>> versions of the specifications will be published.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Simon
>>>
>>> Simon Holdsworth
>>> STSM, SCA Bindings Architect; Master Inventor; OASIS SCA
Bindings >>> TC Chair
>>> MP 211, IBM UK Labs, Hursley Park, Winchester SO21 2JN, UK
>>> Tel +44-1962-815059 (Internal 245059) Fax +44-1962-816898
>>> Internet - Simon_Holdsworth@uk.ibm.com
<mailto:Simon_Holdsworth@uk.ibm.com>
<mailto:Simon_Holdsworth@uk.ibm.com
>>> >
>>> ----- Forwarded by Simon Holdsworth/UK/IBM on 22/05/2009
10:16 -----
>>> *Simon Holdsworth/UK/IBM*
>>>
>>> 02/03/2009 11:27
>>>
>>> >>> To
>>> <mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org
<mailto:mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org>
<mailto:mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org>>
>>> cc
>>> >>> Subject
>>> CD02 packages for SCA Bindings specs
ready for publication
>>>
>>>
>>> >>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mary,
>>>
>>> I have prepared the following packages for publication
containing >>> the CD02 versions of the SCA bindings specs,
and would appreciate >>> it if you could publish them on the
OASIS website:
>>>
>>>
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bindings/download.php/31480/sca-binding-ws-1.1-spec-cd02.zip
>>>
>>>
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bindings/download.php/31479/sca-binding-jms-1.1-spec-cd02.zip
>>>
>>>
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bindings/download.php/31478/sca-binding-jca-1.1-spec-cd02.zip
>>>
>>> The only specific note I have is that we changed the
naming of >>> these documents, so that the latest link on the
old cd01 pages, >>> which currently point to (for example):
>>>
>>>
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-wsbinding-1.1-spec.html
>>>
>>>
>>> now need to point to:
>>>
>>>
http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-binding-ws-1.1-spec.html
>>>
<http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bindings/sca-wsbinding-1.1-spec.html
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess that can be done by redirecting the 3 URLs or
modifying >>> the 3 cd01 HTML pages for WS, JMS and JCA
bindings.
>>>
>>> The cd02 packages all point to this latest URL.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Simopn
>>>
>>> Simon Holdsworth
>>> STSM, SCA Bindings Architect; Master Inventor; OASIS SCA
Bindings >>> TC Chair
>>> MP 211, IBM UK Labs, Hursley Park, Winchester SO21 2JN, UK
>>> Tel +44-1962-815059 (Internal 245059) Fax +44-1962-816898
>>> Internet - Simon_Holdsworth@uk.ibm.com
<mailto:Simon_Holdsworth@uk.ibm.com>
<mailto:Simon_Holdsworth@uk.ibm.com
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> /
>>> /
>>>
>>> /Unless stated otherwise above:
>>> IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and
Wales with >>> number 741598.
>>> Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth,
Hampshire >>> PO6 3AU/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> /
>>> /
>>>
>>> /Unless stated otherwise above:
>>> IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and
Wales with >>> number 741598.
>>> Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth,
Hampshire >>> PO6 3AU/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
/
/
/Unless stated otherwise above:
IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with
number 741598.
Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6
3AU/
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