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Subject: Raw chat log of 2009-10-01 call


Simon Holdsworth: Audio conference:

Meeting Number: * 913929 * (press * before and after the digits)

Phone numbers:

Austria = Vienna 026822056419
Belgium = Brussels 022901709
China = Beijing 01052237296
Czech Republic = Prague 239014054
Denmark = Copenhagen 32714982
France = Lyon 0426840196 Marseille 0488915310 Paris 0170994364
France TollFree = 0800944795
Germany = Berlin 030726167296 Dusseldorf 021154073845 Frankfurt 
069710445413 Hamburg 040809020620 Munich 089244432767 Stuttgart 
0711490813212
Germany TollFree = 08006646304
India = Mumbai 02261501417
Ireland = Dublin 014367612
Italy = Milan 0230413007 Rome 06452108288 Turin 01121792100
Japan = Tokyo 0357675037
Netherlands = Amsterdam 0207965349
Poland Toll-free = 008001213648
Portugal Toll Free = 800782079
Russia = Moscow 84999222481
Russia Toll Free = 81080022074011
South Africa Toll-free = 0800982617
Spain = Barcelona 934923140 Madrid 917889793
Sweden = Stockholm 0850520404
Switzerland = Geneva 0225927186
UAE Toll-free = 8000440387
UK = Birmingham 01212604587 London 02071542988 Manchester 01612500379
UK Toll Free = 08003581667
USA = 19543344789
USA & Canada Toll Free = 18665289390

Simon Holdsworth: Agenda:

Simon Holdsworth: 1. Opening

Introductions
Roll call
Scribe assignment

Top of the scribe list:
Plamen Pavlov SAP AG
Simon Nash Individual
Piotr Przybylski IBM
Anish Karmarkar Oracle Corporation
Tom Rutt Fujitsu Limited
Eric Johnson TIBCO Software Inc.
Ashok Malhotra Oracle Corporation
Martin Chapman Oracle Corporation (LOA)
David Booz IBM
Khanderao Kand Oracle Corporation (LOA)

Agenda bashing

2. Approval of the minutes from 24th September

http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/34398/SCA%20Bindings%20minutes%202009-09-24.doc 


3. Actions

20090211-4 [General] Write up HTTP binding use cases
20090709-2 [Editors] Update the schema appendix title to include 1.1
20090820-2 [Simon Holdsworth] Look at the templating mechanism with 
respect to policy.
20090827-1 [Anish Karmarkar] Complete WS TA document, target 24/09/09
20090917-2 [Simon Holdsworth] Update proposed resolution to issue 
BINDINGS-90 with normative statements for defaults as per assembly spec

4. New Issues

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-97
confusing statement on correlation ID in the context of callbacks with 
JMSbinding

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-98
incorrect capitalization of sca;messageID correlationscheme

5. Test Assertions/Test cases

Current status:

Web Service binding TA document:
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/34127/sca-wsbinding-1.1-test-assertions-wd01.odt 

http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/34128/sca-wsbinding-1.1-test-assertions-wd01.pdf 

Status: initial draft submitted and discussed; Anish to complete draft

JMS TA document:
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/34393/sca-jmsbinding-1.1-test-assertions-wd02.doc 

http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/34394/sca-jmsbinding-1.1-test-assertions-wd02.pdf 


Comment: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200907/msg00093.html

Status: Simon needs to respond to comments, raise issues, latest draft 
needs review.

JCA TA document:
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/34114/sca-jcabinding-1.1-test-assertions-wd03.doc 

http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/34115/sca-jcabinding-1.1-test-assertions-wd03.pdf 

Comment: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200909/msg00011.html
Status: initial draft submitted; needs to be reviewed

6. Open issue discussion

Seven open issues, one deferred:

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-88
JCA Missing Normative statements re: connection/@name 
andactivationSpec/@name
Raiser: Bryan Aupperle, owner: Unassigned
Priority: Unassigned
Status: proposed resolution in issue
Latest email: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200910/msg00002.html

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-89
BJC20008 and BJC20014 are unclear
Raiser: Bryan Aupperle, owner: Unassigned
Priority: Unassigned
Status: proposed resolution in issue
Latest email: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200910/msg00003.html

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-90
no defaults for JMS headers
Raiser: Simon Holdsworth, owner: Simon Holdsworth
Priority: Unassigned
Status: Requires updated proposed resolution
Latest email: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200909/msg00081.html

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-93
BJM60006 too vague and conflicts with other statements
Raiser: Simon Holdsworth, owner: Simon Holdsworth
Priority: Unassigned
Status: Proposed resolution in JIRA
Latest email: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200910/msg00000.html

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-94
scaCallbackDestination destination name unclear
Raiser: Simon Holdsworth, owner: Simon Holdsworth
Priority: Unassigned
Status: Proposed resolution in JIRA

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-95
BJM30032 and BJM30035 conflict
Raiser: Simon Holdsworth, owner: Simon Holdsworth
Priority: Unassigned
Status: Proposed resolution in JIRA

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-96
BJM60012 and BJM60013 conflict
Raiser: Simon Holdsworth, owner: Simon Holdsworth
Priority: Unassigned
Status: Proposed resolution in JIRA

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-60
JMS Default wire format insufficient to cover real world usage
Raiser: Mike Edwards, owner: Simon Holdsworth
Priority: 3 (deferred)
Status: outline proposal in issue

7. AOB

anish: Scribe: anish

anish: Topic: Agenda bashing

anish: agenda approved

anish: Topic: Approval of the minutes from 24th September

anish: 
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/34398/SCA%20Bindings%20minutes%202009-09-24.doc

anish: Minutes approved w/o

Ashok: Simon, I am on the call

anish: Topic: AI review

anish: They are all still pending

anish: Topic: New issues

anish: Two new issues

anish: 1st issue is 97

anish: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-97
confusing statement on correlation ID in the context of callbacks with 
JMSbinding

anish: SimonH explains the issue

anish: SimonH: is confusion when used in the context of bidirectional 
interfaces

Eric Johnson: s/confusion/confusing/

anish thx

anish: motion: m: bryan s:eric to open issue 97

anish: motion approved w/o

anish: issue 97 is now open

anish: 2nd new issue --

anish: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-98
incorrect capitalization of sca;messageID correlationscheme

anish: Eric reviews issue 98

anish: 'messageID' is not used consistently wrt the spelling/capitalization

anish: motion: m:eric s:anish to open issue 98

anish: motion approved w/o

anish: issue 98 is open

anish: Eric: the proposal to resolve 98 is to apply resolution of issue 
59 consistently. Three places where this needs to be corrected

anish: ... it has to be 'messageID'

anish: motion: m:eric s:bryan resolved issue 98 with proposal in JIRA

anish: motion approved w/o

anish: issue 98 is resolved with proposal in JIRA

anish: Topic: Test Assertions/Test cases

anish: SimonH: no real change to the status. Anish still working on WS, 
I'm working on JMS and need to respond to comments

anish: ACTION: SimonH to respond to the comments on JMS TA

anish: SimonH: JCA TA is complete. We need to review all of these and 
approve.

anish: Dave: JCA TA, I thought there were few open items. Was that 
against the spec?

anish: Bryan: yes they were against the spec. We need Piotr on the call 
to resolve this

anish: Topic: Issue 88

anish: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-88
JCA Missing Normative statements re: connection/@name 
andactivationSpec/@name
Raiser: Bryan Aupperle, owner: Unassigned
Priority: Unassigned
Status: proposed resolution in issue
Latest email: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200910/msg00002.html

anish: Bryan describes the issue

anish: Statements about @create="never" is not a conformance item with 
rfc2119 keyword

anish: SimonH: my comment about this is in 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200910/msg00002.html

anish: SimonH: we need to consider consistency with the JMS binding spec

anish: SimonH: possible alternative is to change JCA wording to match 
the JMS wordings

anish: ... we could, in the extreme, look at resolution of issue 31 
(against JMS binding) and rethink that

anish: Bryan: +1 for consistency. But don't understand what the location 
of the connection would be

anish: SimonH: the Q is would the name attribute be anything other than 
something in JNDI

anish: Bryan: think it is true, but would want Piotr to confirm that

anish: SimonH: need further review of the alternate proposal before we 
can make any progress on this issue

anish: ACTION: bryan to ping Piotr and get him to comment on SimonH's 
comment at 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200910/msg00002.html

anish: Topic: Issue 89

anish: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-89
BJC20008 and BJC20014 are unclear
Raiser: Bryan Aupperle, owner: Unassigned
Priority: Unassigned
Status: proposed resolution in issue
Latest email: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200910/msg00003.html

anish: Bryan: there is contradictory text in the JMS spec

anish: ... the resource may have been defined outside of the SCA env and 
that may not be an error

anish: SimonH: we would need to get additional input on this one too

anish: ACTION: bryan to ping Piotr and get him to comment on discussions 
on issues 88 and 89

anish: (this updates the previous AI for bryan)

anish: Topic: issue 90

anish: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-90
no defaults for JMS headers
Raiser: Simon Holdsworth, owner: Simon Holdsworth
Priority: Unassigned
Status: Requires updated proposed resolution
Latest email: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200909/msg00081.html

anish: Anish: do we really need to define default for TTL and priority. 
Every time you run it, you are going to get different behavior, based on 
what else is going on in the system. This isn't about portability. If 
JMS doesn't specify the default, we may want to leave it unspecified.

anish: Simon: JMS API does specify the defaults, but that is for the 
API. We need to define it here.

anish: Anish: ok, in that case, no problem stating the defaults

anish: discussion on how to specify default in SCA specs

anish: and how assembly does it

anish: since the value can be specified in different places and the spec 
text needs to address that when specifying the defaults

anish: proposal from SimonH --

anish: If no delivery mode value is specified via the @uri attribute, 
headers/@deliveryMode attribute or 
operationProperties/headers/@deliveryMode attribute for the operation 
being invoked, the SCA runtime MUST send messages from the binding using 
a persistent delivery mode. [BJM2000X]
If no priority value is specified via the @uri attribute, the 
headers/@priority attribute, or the 
operationProperties/headers/@priority attribute for the operation being 
invoked, the SCA runtime MUST send messages from the binding using a 
priority value of 4. [BJM2000X]
If no time to live value is specified via the @uri attribute, 
headers/@timeToLive attribute or operationProperties/headers/@timeToLive 
attribute for the operation being invoked, the SCA runtime MUST send 
messages from the binding using a time to live value of 0. [BJM2000X]

anish: MikeE: the other problem is that these values can be specified in 
multiple places, if they don't agree that would be an error

anish: SimonH: there is precedence specified in that case

anish: MikeE: you just need to specify the default for one of those 
cases then

anish: Eric: if you specified it as a default in the schema then the 
PSVI will always have a value, so the case of not having a value would 
not arise

anish: Eric: similar to message correlation

anish: Anish: what happens if I use a non-schema-validating parser

anish: Eric: i dont' think we say anything related to that in assembly

anish: ... we would have to say something about that

anish: SimonH: don't have a strong feeling either way. The original 
proposal was to define a default in the schema. That would be sufficient.

anish: ... I would be ok with that proposal

anish: ... the proposal without the normative stmts was to add 
non-normative statements about default and then add a schema default

anish: ... the concern about this was that do we need 2119 to allow for 
testing

anish: SimonN: there is precedence for stating the default without 2119 
keywords

anish: MikeE: that is because we have it in schema and schema is normative

anish: MikeE: for things like autowire, where it is complicated then we 
have 2119 keywords, else we don't

anish: SimonN: in that case why would we not use XSD

anish: SimonH: no big preference, but for testing it is useful to have 
2119 keywords

anish: SimonN: there are many cases where XSD specifies the default and 
no 2119 keywords. this is no different

anish: SimonH: fine with that

anish: Anish: are we saying that then we would fix the PSVI issue 
separately in assembly?

anish: SimonH: separate issue but for JMS spec

anish: SimonN: do we have any other case of default in JMS?

anish: SimonH: we do for correlation schema and create

anish: SimonN: we then should deal with this uniformly

anish: MikE: nothing stopping you from creating test cases for whatever 
you want

anish: SimonN: we need a separate issue about how default are handled

anish: ... but can resolve this issue

anish: motion: m:mikeE s:dave resolve issue 90 with proposal in JIRA

anish: motion approved w/o

anish: issue 90 is resolved with proposal in JIRA

anish: SimonN thx the TC/ppl for the experience and wishes the best for 
completion of the spec

anish: TC appreciates Simon's efforts and contributions

anish: meeting adjourned



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