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Subject: raw chat log 8th apr 2010


Simon Holdsworth: Audio conference: 

Meeting Number: * 913929 * (press * before and after the digits) 

Phone numbers: 

Austria = Vienna 026822056419 
Belgium = Brussels 022901709 
China = Beijing 01052237296 
Czech Republic = Prague 239014054 
Denmark = Copenhagen 32714982 
France = Lyon 0426840196 Marseille 0488915310 Paris 0170994364 
France TollFree = 0800944795 
Germany = Berlin 030726167296 Dusseldorf 021154073845 Frankfurt 069710445413 Hamburg 040809020620 Munich 089244432767 Stuttgart
0711490813212 
Germany TollFree = 08006646304 
India = Mumbai 02261501417 
Ireland = Dublin 014367612 
Italy = Milan 0230413007 Rome 06452108288 Turin 01121792100 
Japan = Tokyo 0357675037 
Netherlands = Amsterdam 0207965349 
Poland Toll-free = 008001213648 
Portugal Toll Free = 800782079 
Russia = Moscow 84999222481 
Russia Toll Free = 81080022074011 
South Africa Toll-free = 0800982617 
Spain = Barcelona 934923140 Madrid 917889793 
Sweden = Stockholm 0850520404 
Switzerland = Geneva 0225927186 
UAE Toll-free = 8000440387 
UK = Birmingham 01212604587 London 02071542988 Manchester 01612500379 
UK Toll Free = 08003581667 
USA = 19543344789 
USA & Canada Toll Free = 18665289390

Simon Holdsworth: Agenda

Simon Holdsworth: 1. Opening 

Introductions 
Roll call 

Scribe assignment 

Top of the scribe list: 
Plamen Pavlov SAP AG 
Tom Rutt Fujitsu Limited 
Martin Chapman Oracle Corporation 
Eric Johnson TIBCO Software Inc. 
Bryan Aupperle IBM 
Anish Karmarkar Oracle Corporation 
Ashok Malhotra Oracle Corporation 
David Booz IBM 
Laurent Domenech TIBCO Software Inc. 

Agenda bashing 

2. Approval of the minutes from 25th March: 

http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/37096/SCA%20Bindings%20minutes%202010-03-25.doc 

3. Actions 

20090211-4 [General] Write up HTTP binding use cases 
20090709-2 [Editors] Update the WS binding schema appendix title to include 1.1 
20100325-1 [Editors] Update the WS binding spec for editorial comments related to resolution of BINDINGS-124 from email
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/201003/msg00066.html 
20100325-2 [Editors] Update the WS binding spec for editorial comments related to resolution of BINDINGS-124 from email
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/201003/msg00068.html 

4. New Issues 

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-126 
binding.ws should REQUIRE support for WS-Policy 

5. Discuss proposed TC schedule 

Updated following discussion on call of 4th March 
Consider date by which open issues are to be closed or deferred; also consider raising open vote to 2/3. 

8th April: cd vote on bindings specs and TA documents; discuss production of test case documents/test cases; submit cd04 of bindings
specs for second public review; 
15th April: Initial test case documents and test cases prepared for discussion/review 
29th April: Test cases complete 
6th May: Submit cd01 of TA documents and test cases for public review 

6. CD review/vote 

7. Open issue discussion 

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-111 
binding.jms uses JMS URI scheme even though it is not a valid IETF internet draft 
Raiser: Eric Johnson, owner: Unassigned 
Priority: Unassigned 
Status: Pending response from Oracle with respect to approval of the IETF draft 

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-60 
JMS Default wire format insufficient to cover real world usage 
Raiser: Mike Edwards, owner: Simon Holdsworth 
Priority: 3 (deferred) 
Status: outline proposal in issue 

8. AOB

Dave Booz: Has the call been started?

Simon Holdsworth: yes

Dave Booz: ok, i'll redial

MartinC: Scribe: MartinC

MartinC: Topic: Agenda

MartinC: Approved as posted

MartinC: Topic: Approval of the minutes from 25th March: 

http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/37096/SCA%20Bindings%20minutes%202010-03-25.doc

MartinC: Approved with out objection

MartinC: topic: Action Items

MartinC: 20090709-2 [Editors] Update the WS binding schema appendix title to include 1.1

MartinC: pending

MartinC: 20100325-1 [Editors] Update the WS binding spec for editorial comments related to resolution of BINDINGS-124 from email
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/201003/msg00066.html 
20100325-2 [Editors] Update the WS binding spec for editorial comments related to resolution of BINDINGS-124 from email
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/201003/msg00068.html

MartinC: 20100325-1 [Editors] Update the WS binding spec for editorial comments related to resolution of BINDINGS-124 from email
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/201003/msg00066.html 
20100325-2 [Editors] Update the WS binding spec for editorial comments related to resolution of BINDINGS-124 from email
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/201003/msg00068.html

MartinC: Both are done

MartinC: topic: New Issues

MartinC: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-126 
binding.ws should REQUIRE support for WS-Policy

MartinC: Mike E introduces the issue.

MartinC: Martin: why is this not a job of SCA -policy?

MartinC: Mike E: sca policy is agnostic to policy language, and ws-policy is relevant to WS bindings

MartinC: Anish: this will require all sca runtimes to support ws-policy as per currently worded conformance.

MartinC: Ashok: is not the only policy language?

MartinC: Mike E: no, but the one that is required to be supported.

MartinC: Eric: we would have to reconcile wsdl policy statements with intents, which looks like a hard problem to solve. Would these
have to be put into the wsdl that gets generated?

anish: isn't this is more general sca policy question?

MartinC: Mike E: relevant concerns, but those concerns exist whether ws-policy is REQUIRED or not

MartinC: Mike E: this is about requiring ws-policy language to be supported, not necessarily about the contents of what is
expressed.

MartinC: Eric: this might be hard to test!

anish: this is sort of like this TC. the official business language for this TC is english. Assertions made by individuals like 'you
owe me $100' may not be acceptable to everyone, but still having an official language and requiring that everybody that comes to the
table understand that is still necessary

MartinC: Anish: requiring ws-policy to be recognized is an important first step.

anish: light-weight v. portability/interop. Can't have both. Perhaps profiles is the answer, if you want to maintain both these
qualities

MartinC: Tom: is it ony about supporting the languange and not specific policies?

MartinC: Mike E: correct.

MartinC: Mike E moves to open issue 126, 2nd Dave

MartinC: Eric: this is probably overspecifying things

MartinC: Eric objects to unanimous consent so counted vote.

MartinC: 9 yes, 2 abstain, motion carries, 126 is openned

MartinC: topic: Discuss proposed TC schedule

MartinC: Binding spec documents are ready

MartinC: Follow the same approach as other SCA TCs

MartinC: Test assertions are done and up to date.

MartinC: Mike E happy to contribute to a ws bingings test suite, and enourgaes the same approach as used in the Assembly TC.

MartinC: Any other volunteers to assist in the production of the test cases?

MartinC: Any other volunteers to assist in the production of the test cases?

Mike Edwards: TestSuite document for Assembly test suite:

Mike Edwards:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly-testing/download.php/33771/sca-assembly-1.1-testcases-cd01.odt

MartinC: Simon: this might not be about sca-sca testing - esp if negative/malformed testing, as this would require an sca runtime to
be badly behaved!

MartinC: Mike E: might need test like this, especially for callback

MartinC: Mike E: this would be testing a non-sca with an sca

MartinC: simon: as long as we can use a non sca test to generate/receive messages then we can build tests.

MartinC: Discussion about jax-ws as a non-sca mechanism to test against sca

MartinC: Simon: need to put some thought into this!

MartinC: topic: cd review/vote

MartinC: Simon: thoughts on approving CD and another PR?

MartinC: Martin: Isn't it better to resolve the new issue about ws-policy before going to next PR?

MartinC: s/next PR/next PR of ws bindings/

MartinC: general agreement that we need to resolve 126 before the next PR, but this only affects bindings.ws

MartinC: JMS and JCA have been available and no significant issues are outstanding.

MartinC: The TC needs to review these two and validate the application of resolved issues.

MartinC: To clarify, these would be the second PR for all specifications.

MartinC: Mike E: remebers one issue from assembly that needs fixing in all bindings schemas. There is s problem with extensibility
and upa.

MartinC shouldnt Mike e raise an issue? 

MartinC: Mike E will raise an issues against each of the binding specs, and hopes the same solution be followed as in assembly.

MartinC: All three binding specs will probably be affected.

MartinC: Action Item: Mike E to raise 3 issues, one for each spec, regarding schema upa issues.

MartinC: Simon: not much point doing any cd vot until the upa and the ws-policy issues are resolved.

MartinC: s/vot/vote/

MartinC: Bryan: will the namespace have to be revised?

MartinC: Anish: the UPA fix and the epr change are a breaking change

MartinC: s/are/will probably be/

MartinC: Bryan: and namespace rev wouldnt necessarily trigger another public review across the family of specs

Bryan Aupperle: I really hope not...

MartinC: topic: issue 111

MartinC: No update on the URI scheme issue. Ashok will bug Jeff M again!

MartinC: topic: AOB

MartinC: stragglers

MartinC: meeting closed



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