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Subject: Raw chat log for SCA bindings TC - 2010-09-30
Mike Edwards: I'll join in a moment Eric Johnson: Scribe: Eric Mike Edwards: trouble dialling in Mike Edwards: in Eric Johnson1: Topic: agenda review Eric Johnson1: No comments on agenda. Eric Johnson1: Topic: Approval of the minutes of last meeting Eric Johnson1: No objections to approving the minutes. Eric Johnson1: Topic: action items Eric Johnson1: No progress. Eric Johnson1: Topic: New issues Eric Johnson1: Subtopic: BINDINGS-138 Eric Johnson1: Simon pointing out that the normative statement is unclear as to *which* connectionFactory element it applies to. Eric Johnson1: Bryan moves to open, Dave 2nds. Eric Johnson1: No objections, motion passes, issue is opened. Eric Johnson1: Simon review proposal. Eric Johnson1: Simon: Does not appear that any new normative statements are required, just some additional wording required to clarify. Eric Johnson1: Bryan: You don't believe this changes the meaning of the normative statement? Eric Johnson1: Simon: No Mike Edwards: +1 Eric Johnson1: Bryan moves to resolve BINDINGS-138 with proposal in JIRA, Dave 2nds. Eric Johnson1: No objections, motion passes, BINDINGS-138 is resolved. Eric Johnson1: Subtopic: BINDINGS-139 Eric Johnson1: Simon: As with previous issue, we have a normative statement that deals with a response, just need to narrow the meaning of BJM30019. Eric Johnson1 morphed into Eric Johnson Eric Johnson: Bryan moves to open, Mike 2nds. Eric Johnson: No objections, motion passes and the issue is opened. Eric Johnson: Simon reviews proposal Eric Johnson: Bryan moves to resolve BINDINGS-139 with the proposal in JIRA, Dave 2nds. Eric Johnson: No objections, motion passes, issue is resolved. Eric Johnson: Topic: JMS Binding test assertions and test cases Eric Johnson: Simon: Anyone looked at them? Eric Johnson: (pregnant pause) Eric Johnson: Simon: Apparently not - did a side by comparison of test assertions and test cases. Eric Johnson: ... haven't had the time to look at the implementation of the test cases. Eric Johnson: ... One concern to raise - syntax checking of URI. Is it OK to just have a negative test, or do we need to validate different parts of the URI. Eric Johnson: ... anything similar done in other TCs? Eric Johnson: Bryan: We're not defining the format, this isn't the place to do exhaustive testing. Eric Johnson: Simon: Currently we test if there's an invalid URI, we reject it. Eric Johnson: ... Some assertions that deal with out headers get set. We have a structure - if A, do this, or if B, do another, or if C do a third. Eric Johnson: ... trouble is that the test cases don't test combinations - what if A & B are present. For example, if the URI is present, and the destination is present, we don't have a test to confirm that the URI is used instead of the destination? Eric Johnson: ... Is it reasonable to have the tests that we currently have? Eric Johnson: Mike: Unreasonable to expect the test cases to cover all the possibilities. Eric Johnson: ... Cover the assertions, but it is unrealistic to cover every feature. Eric Johnson: Simon: We're missing the point slightly with the test cases that are there, because we don't verify the priority of a particular property. Eric Johnson: Ant: That could be the case for some of them - there are certainly some missing. Eric Johnson: Simon: I've not had a chance to look at all the test cases. Specifically looked at the headers, and the order of that priority. Eric Johnson: ... In principle, we don't think we need to test every case, but just verify that we're applying properties correctly. Eric Johnson: ... There are a number of test cases where what was tested, and what was asserted are different. Eric Johnson: ... Example: BJM_30010_TestCase - if you're using request response, only deliver one response. Eric Johnson: ... Example: BJM_30010_TestCase - if you're using request response, only deliver one response. Eric Johnson: ... possible to end up with multiple messages delivered. Eric Johnson: ... Cannot test, because you cannot wait for eternity.... Eric Johnson: ... My feeling is that the assertion is untestable so we should remove the test case. Eric Johnson: ... 60009 - "should" assertion. Eric Johnson: Bryan: We've taken the view with other test cases that if they're marked "should", we won't test. Eric Johnson: Simon: Really a comment on test assertions document. Eric Johnson: Byran: Just should mark it as "not tested." Eric Johnson: ... We had some discussions in the assembly TC, and I think we should follow that pattern. Eric Johnson: Action: Simon - check on the pattern for not-having test cases, and verify that we've applied it. Eric Johnson: ... make sure that assertions with "shoulds" don't have a mandatory test assertion, but "preferred". Eric Johnson: Simon: Some more comments... need some more time to look at the test implementation. Ant should look at Simon's list. Eric Johnson: Action: Ant to look at Simon's email to see what should be done. Eric Johnson: Simon: I think we should leave the vote until next week. Everyone should look at the documents and provide comments. Eric Johnson: ... any other comments. Eric Johnson: Dave: Before we go on to 1.2, something else to comment on. Eric Johnson: ... Status question: Where are we in terms of 1.1? Assembly is ready, Policy is read ... Eric Johnson: Simon: Web service binding - everything addressed, public review of test assertions & test cases is still ongoing? Eric Johnson: Dave: Does Tuscany pass the suite? Eric Johnson: Simon: Don't know, that would be a question for Mike. Eric Johnson: Ant: Yes - web services binding passes under Tuscany. Eric Johnson: Dave: So we're really just waiting for public review to finish Eric Johnson: Bryan: After review, we can vote on final CDs of all documents. Eric Johnson: Bryan: After review, we can vote on final CDs of all documents. Eric Johnson: ... Sinking suspicion that we'll have to have another PR of CAA. Eric Johnson: Simon: Action item that we have to resync the schema. As far as the spec is concerned, everything is complete. Need to do JMS test cases & test assertions PR. Eric Johnson: Dave: Right. Eric Johnson: Simon: JCA is still open. Eric Johnson: Dave: Not sure we're going to hold up 1.1 for either JMS or JCA. Eric Johnson: Topic: Impact from 1.2 work. Eric Johnson: Simon: Have seen notes going by related to bindings, and where bindings are implied. Eric Johnson: ... Are there going to be changes to bindings? Eric Johnson: ... Is anyone able to speak to the known impact on the bindings? Do we want to have a specific named person keeping the bindings TC up-to-date? Eric Johnson: Bryan: To some degree, as some things become clearer in assembly, the information will come here, or more formal cross communication. Eric Johnson: Dave: Or through common members as issues. Eric Johnson: Simon: One approach is to not do anything as a TC. What changes are coming, and of what magnitude, and when? Eric Johnson: Dave: Maybe Eric will speak up - don't see a lot of change for existing bindings, but potential for new bindings. Eric Johnson: Eric: Assembly TC might kick a number of things this way. Complexity will lie with items like policy, and what it means to provide producer/consumer functionality. Eric Johnson: Simon: Don't know how much we need to wait on what happens in assembly. Eric Johnson: Bryan: For what it is worth, we're taking a wait-and-see attitude, but trying to keep up. Officially taking a hands-off approach for consensus to appear. Eric Johnson: Simon: Once we get the test cases done, do we work on HTTP binding, or are we waiting for other TCs to drive our work? Eric Johnson: Bryan: Working on HTTP sounds like the right approach. Eric Johnson: (oops, that was Dave) Eric Johnson: Bryan: Issues have been raised in assembly about type system requirements - potentially has enabling impacts with binding.http. Eric Johnson: Simon: any other discussion? Eric Johnson: ... Next meeting will be focused on JMS test documents, and HTTP binding. Please go look at test documents. Eric Johnson: Topic: AOB? Eric Johnson: Meeting adjourned. |
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