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Subject: raw minutes from 2008-mar-20 telcon
Minutes in raw format: [13:37] Room information was updated by: charlton Dial-in: 1-888-967-2253 +1-650-607-2253 +61-2-8817-6100 +44-118-924-9000 Meeting ID: 877770 Meeting password: SCABPEL (7222735) Web-conf: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/sca-bpel-TC Acrobat connect room URL: http://my.adobe.acrobat.com/scabpel/ [15:05] anish: Agenda: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/event.php?event_id=16246 [15:07] charltonb: Roll Call [15:08] charltonb: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/members/roster.php [15:08] charltonb: 9 of 13 voting members attending [15:08] charltonb: quorate [15:09] charltonb: Agenda Bashing [15:09] charltonb: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00018.html [15:09] charltonb: Scribe: Charlton [15:09] scribe: Anish: Agenda never made it to the mailing list, but is available on the website [15:10] scribe: Anish: Any changes to the agenda? [15:10] Dieter Koenig: 1. Roll Call http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/members/roster.php 2. Appointment of scribe Rotating list attached below 3. Agenda bashing 4. Approval of March 13, 2008 meeting minutes http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00018.html 5. Action items review http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/members/action_items.php #0021 chairs to follow up with Mary to post the CD docs to OASIS repository #0028 Dieter to include the statement that the pdf version is authoritative DONE #0029 Sanjay to provide the link to the naming guideline document on the ML DONE #0030 MichaelR to prepare a BPEL-14 proposal for annotating serviceName, referenceName and intents in the source BPEL process definition 6. New Issues NONE 7. Status of Committee Draft publication to OASIS doc repository OASIS TC Process requirements on Specification Quality: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/process.php#specQuality a) Latest Version URI in specifications http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00021.html http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00023.html b) HTML formatted version c) Separate schema file, Latest URI Update from the editors http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00028.html d) Namespace document (e.g. RDDL based) http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00029.html http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00030.html 8. Issue Discussion a) Issue 14 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-14 TITLE: Allow sca-aware processes to specify everything that can be specified in a CT side file SUBMITTED BY: Anish Karmarkar Latest email: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00022.html Latest proposal is in minutes at http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00018.html b) Issue 15 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-15 TITLE: Define Conformance Targets SUBMITTED BY: Martin Chapman c) Issue 18 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-18 TITLE: Need to rewrite the SCA-BPEL specifications with RFC-2119 keywords/statements SUBMITTED BY: KHANDERAO KAND d) Issue 16 http://osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-16 TITLE: Ambigous Service Resolution SUBMITTED BY: Dieter Koenig 9. AOB [15:10] scribe: Anish: None, agenda apprived [15:10] anish: minutes: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00018.html [15:10] scribe: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00018.html [15:11] scribe: Anish: Any changes to the minutes? None? Minutes approved [15:11] scribe: Danny made it to the call [15:11] scribe: Action Item review: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/members/action_items.php [15:11] scribe: #0021 chairs to follow up with Mary to post the CD docs to OASIS repository [15:11] scribe: Sanjay: No new updates to this AI [15:12] scribe: #0028 Dieter to include the statement that the pdf version is authoritative [15:12] scribe: Anish: AI is done [15:12] scribe: Dieter: Uploaded docs on Monday, XML Schema files per naming convention from Sanjay, two version of the draft [15:12] scribe: s/version/versions/ [15:13] scribe: #0029 Sanjay to provide the link to the naming guideline document on the ML [15:13] scribe: Anish: AI is done [15:13] scribe: #0030 MichaelR to prepare a BPEL-14 proposal for annotating serviceName, [15:13] scribe: referenceName and intents in the source BPEL process definition [15:13] scribe: Anish: Haven't seen an email on this [15:14] scribe: MichaelR: Notice src doc to work with is almost ready, basing this on #01, will write next working draft as resolution to this issue [15:14] scribe: New Issues [15:14] scribe: Anish, MichaelR: Haven't seen any for this week. [15:14] scribe: Anish: 15 minute window OASIS had to shut down email system, may have had something to do with this [15:15] scribe: Status of Committee Draft publication to OASIS doc repository [15:15] scribe: OASIS TC Process requirements on Specification Quality: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/process.php#specQuality [15:15] scribe: a) Latest Version URI in specifications http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00021.html http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bpel/200803/msg00023.html [15:15] scribe: Anish: Sanjay and MichaelR had suggestions as to filename formats [15:16] scribe: s/MichaelR/MikeEdwards/ [15:16] scribe: Anish: Sanjay suggested that this version of the URI contained the doc level and sequence number. Mike Edwards had slightly different ideas [15:17] scribe: MikeEdwards: I didn't understand the need for the sequence number [15:17] scribe: Sanjay: THe URL itself does not have unique token that would distinguish one version from another. If we don't have a different filename for each new version, every new version overwrites what was there previously [15:18] scribe: Sanjay: OASIS policy is that an artefact that existed once s/always be accessible [15:19] scribe: Sanjay: Should have a permanent URI value, something that separates each URI from URI value. Some TCs incl date of uplaod of doc to repository. Instead of dot level, we could use date. While that would work fine, we usually use dot level and version. [15:19] scribe: Anish q+ [15:19] scribe: Anish: Question - this seems to assume we would change this version URI of we go from CD02 to CD03, even if no change to the schema. I hope that is not true. [15:21] scribe: Sanjay: I think we should do that - reflect the CD name in the version. Primarily we need to address where there are changes to the schema from one version to the other. I don't see versioning when none of the textual content has changed to be a bad thing [15:21] scribe: MikeEdwards: If only the XSDs we're talking about, i think it is irrelevant to tie the naming of the XSD to the CD level [15:21] scribe: MikeEdwards: Different sequence number on the file name doesn't tell you that a change was made, necessarily [15:22] scribe: MikeEdwards: Date is more meaningful than some CD number. I would suggest using the date of change as part of the filename [15:22] scribe: Sanjay: I am ok with that [15:22] scribe: MikeEdwards: Then the latest date reflects the last published, rather than some random CD numbering scheme [15:22] scribe: MartinC q+ [15:23] scribe: MartinC: I don't see the name of the file as being relevant here. I agree with MikeEdwards that if we don't make changes we shouldn't increment it. I would just follow the same filename as the CD itself [15:24] scribe: Sanjay: What are you suggesting? Not happy with changing the filename if the content hasn't changed. correct? [15:24] scribe: MartinC: Yes. I think where we have the CD where we haven't made a schema change as a minority case at most, non-existent at least. [15:25] scribe: MartinC: For changing the schema, I suggest we follow the naming scheme for the rest of the artefacts. An unique name is good enough. Why not follow existing practice per OASIS file naming guidelines [15:25] scribe: Anish q+ [15:26] Sanjay: http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/sca-bpel-1.1-schema-200712-[DateOfPublication].xsd [15:26] Sanjay: Can we use the above for ThisVersion URI? [15:27] Danny van der Rijn: Issue for Liason/Steering Committee? [15:27] scribe: Anish: There's a diff between how we would generate filenames for schema vs. the spec. The schema would have a date in it. I have this notion of namespace versioning, that we would not change the namespace URI if there are no changes that break compatibility. The date in the file has the same date as the namespace URI. If the namespace URI did not change, since the date in the file didn't change, but the schema changed, I think we'd need the sequence number as a unique id, but not at the doc level. [15:27] scribe: DannyvanderRijn q+ [15:28] scribe: DannyvanderRijn: Do we have a proposal on the table for this, and is this a Liaison/SC issue? [15:29] scribe: Sanjay: We have had good discussion on this. I think we can make progress by looking at concrete proposal. I understand MikeEdwards point. I think we could follow the convention per date of publication. I have posed this in the chat room. http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/sca-bpel-1.1-schema-200712-[DateOfPublication].xsd [15:30] scribe: Anish: I have a slightly different proposal [describes]. Do we need the date of publication? Or can we use a serial/sequence number [describes]? [15:30] scribe: Sanjay: I think that works as well - the last token simply needs to be some unique identifier [15:30] anish: proposal s/[DateOfPublication]/[seq-no]/ [15:31] anish: eg: http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/sca-bpel-1.1-schema-200712-01.xsd [15:31] scribe: Khanderao q+ [15:31] Mike Edwards: Compare with this, which has just one date: [15:32] Mike Edwards: http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-tx/wsat/2006/06/wstx-wsat-1.1-schema-200701.xsd [15:32] scribe: Khanderao: Why do we need date and sequence number? If we use date as with WS-A, we have an unique id. Anyway this is not the final schema/artefact. In interim schema, do we need sequence number? [15:32] Mike Edwards: there is already a date in the URL itself [15:33] Sanjay: In the tx example, '2006/06' perhaps is coming from the namespace URI, and [15:33] Sanjay: '200701' is the date of incompatible change [15:33] scribe: Anish: This is for the filename of the XSD. For the same namespace, there c/b multiple versions for that namespace schema. It is possible we have 10 versions of the 200701. Namespace URI would NOT contain the sequence number, but the date. This reflects the file name. [15:33] Mike Edwards: that's right [15:33] Sanjay: s/incompatible/compatible [15:33] scribe: Khanderao: Do we expect multiple schema for that date? [15:33] scribe: Anish: Looking at the filename, you would not know the date in the namespace [15:34] Mike Edwards: The thinking is that the 2006/06 part in the uRL is fixed until there is an incompatible change [15:34] scribe: Sanjay: There are two different things w.r.t. date and month - one is of the namespace URI, the other of incompatible change [15:36] scribe: Sanjay: Need to reconcile our use of date and month with date of incompatible change. I believe Anish's suggestion would work. I move to adopt that suggestion as in the chat. [15:36] scribe: MikeEdwards: I second that proposal [15:36] Sanjay: motion: adopt http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/sca-bpel-1.1-schema-200712-[seq-no].xsd [15:36] Sanjay: example: http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/sca-bpel-1.1-schema-200712-01.xsd [15:36] scribe: Proposal: http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/sca-bpel-1.1-schema-200712-[seq-no].xsd [15:37] scribe: Motion: Sanjay Second: MikeEdwards [15:37] scribe: Discussion [15:38] scribe: Najeeb: May be great idea to id schema uniquely, but it is not user friendly [15:38] scribe: Najeeb: Suggest not using ids in file name [15:38] Sanjay: Just to be clear, the motion is about 'This Version URI' [15:38] scribe: Najeeb: Should convey what they mean - semantic meaning - date has this. Sequence number has no semantic meaning. [15:38] scribe: Anish: Do you have an alternate suggestion? [15:40] scribe: Najeeb: Date is sufficient [15:40] Sanjay: For me it doesn't matter, but just to make it concrete, example with Najeeb's suggestion would look like [15:40] Sanjay: http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/sca-bpel-1.1-schema-200712-Mar2008.xsd [15:40] scribe: Anish: We have two proposals on the table [15:40] anish i don't have a preference between the two [15:40] scribe: Sanjay: Example per Najeeb's suggestion: http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/sca-bpel-1.1-schema-200712-Mar2008.xsd [15:41] scribe: Najeeb: I move to adopt this convention http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/sca-bpel-1.1-schema-200712-[MMMYYYY].xsd [15:41] scribe: Sanjay: Second [15:41] Mike Edwards: pretty ugly [15:42] scribe: DannyvanderRijn: THis is a Liaison/SC issue, consistency is preferred [15:42] Sanjay: +1 to anish. We can revisit this issue if Liaison thinks otherwise [15:42] scribe: Anish: We can take this to the Liaison/SC [15:42] scribe: MikeEdwards q+ [15:42] Sanjay: everything about the filename looks weird to me. we just need to agree upon some 'ugly' format. [15:43] scribe: MikeEdwards: THis is pretty ugly [15:43] scribe: Anish: I am in the same boat [15:43] scribe: Khanderao: MikeEdwards provided an example, but both dates, but not in same way as in Najeeb's proposal. Why not consider MikeEdwards' proposal? [15:44] scribe: Khanderao: I am speaking against the proposal. It seems confusing and doesn't clarify anything beyond what has already been proposed [15:44] Sanjay: separating the two dates by a few characters might be slightly friendlier but still weird [15:46] scribe: Charlton: Having two dates together doesn't convey semantic meaning clearly [15:46] scribe: Anish: Are there any objections to Najeeb's amendment? [15:47] Sanjay: Khanderao's suggestion: http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-tx/wsat/[YYYY of namespace URI]/[MM of namespace URI]/wstx-wsat-1.1-schema-[YYYYMM-of-publication].xsd [15:47] scribe: Anish: Any objection to approval of this amendment? Khanderao objects [15:47] scribe: Anish: Put to a vote (accept amendment): [15:47] scribe: Najeeb: Yes [15:47] scribe: Charlton: No [15:47] Sanjay: http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/[YYYY of namespace URI]/[MM of namespace URI]/wstx-wsat-1.1-schema-[YYYYMM-of-publication].xsd [15:48] scribe: MartinC: Yes [15:48] scribe: MikeEdwards: No [15:48] scribe: Khanderao: No [15:48] scribe: Anish: No [15:48] scribe: Dieter: No [15:48] scribe: Ashok: ... [15:48] scribe: Simon: ... [15:48] scribe: Sanjay: Abstain [15:48] Ashok: No [15:49] scribe: MichaelRowley: Abstain [15:49] scribe: Ivana: Abstain [15:49] scribe: DannyvanderRijn: Abstain [15:49] Sanjay: Amendment: Adopt the following format for 'This Version URI': http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/[YYYY of namespace URI]/[MM of namespace URI]/wstx-wsat-1.1-schema-[YYYYMM-of-publication].xsd [15:50] scribe: Ashok please speak up or unmute if you are on the telcon [15:50] Sanjay: Example: http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/2007/12/wstx-wsat-1.1-schema-200803.xsd [15:50] scribe: Charlton: Does a chat room vote count? If not on the phone [15:50] scribe: Anish: Does that count MartinC? [15:50] scribe: MartinC: If it doesn't affect the outcome, no point discussing it [15:51] scribe: Anish: Amendment thus does not carry: 5 No votes to 2 Yes votes [15:51] scribe: Sanjay proposed new amendment [15:51] scribe: Sanjay: Amendment: Adopt the following format for 'This Version URI': http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/[YYYY of namespace URI]/[MM of namespace URI]/wstx-wsat-1.1-schema-[YYYYMM-of-publication].xsd [15:51] Mike Edwards: Wouldnt we get this: http://docs.oasis-open.org/ns/opencsa/sca/200712/sca-core-Mar2008.xsd ?? [15:51] scribe: Anish: Can the OASIS i/f handle that? [15:52] scribe: Sanjay: Yes (AT namespace) [15:52] scribe: Sanjay: This creates a dir in the OASIS repository [15:52] scribe: Sanjay: I don't see a tech issue with this [15:53] Sanjay: Amendment: Adopt the following format for 'This Version URI': http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/[YYYY of namespace URI]/[MM of namespace URI]/wstx-wsat-1.1-schema-[YYYYMM-of-publication].xsd [15:53] scribe: Sanjay moves for that amendment: Amendment: Adopt the following format for 'This Version URI': http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/[YYYY of namespace URI]/[MM of namespace URI]/wstx-wsat-1.1-schema-[YYYYMM-of-publication].xsd [15:53] Sanjay: Example: http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/2007/12/wstx-wsat-1.1-schema-200803.xsd [15:53] scribe: Khanderao seconds [15:54] scribe: DannyvanderRijn: We've spent a lot of time on this issue and have less than 10 minutes on the call, can we move this issue along? [15:54] scribe: Anish: No additional discussion? Any objections to approving the amendment? Not hearing any, the amendment is approved [15:54] scribe: Anish: Now we have an amended main motion. Any more discussion? [15:55] Dieter Koenig: So the two SCA-BPEL XML Schema files would then be named http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/2007/12/sca-bpel-1.1-schema-200803.xsd http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/2008/01/sca-bpel-extensions-1.1-schema-200803.xsd ? [15:55] scribe: Anish: Any objection to approving this amended main motion? None. It is approved. Sanjay can you take this to the Liaison/SC? [15:55] scribe: Sanjay; Sure. [15:56] scribe: Sanjay: This example would have sca-bpel relevant characters in place of wstx-wsat: http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/[YYYY of namespace URI]/[MM of namespace URI]/wstx-wsat-1.1-schema-[YYYYMM-of-publication].xsd [15:56] Sanjay: Motion: Adopt the following format for 'This Version URI': http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/[YYYY of namespace URI]/[MM of namespace URI]/sca-bpel-1.1-schema.xsd, Example: http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/2007/12/sca-bpel-1.1-schema.xsd [15:56] scribe: Dieter: Would my examples be correct? http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/2007/12/sca-bpel-1.1-schema-200803.xsd http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/2008/01/sca-bpel-extensions-1.1-schema-200803.xsd [15:56] Sanjay: s/This Version/Latest Version [15:56] scribe: Sanjay: Yes [15:56] Michael Rowley: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-bpel/download.php/27652/sca-bpel-1.1-spec-cd-01%2Bissue14.doc [15:57] scribe: 8. Issue Discussion a) Issue 14 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BPEL-14 [15:57] scribe: Discussion on how OASIS mailing list is still not working [15:58] scribe: Anish: With 4 more minutes, rather would go through rest of pub issues. Sanjay to talk about latest URI [15:58] scribe: Sanjay: Example: http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/2007/12/sca-bpel-1.1-schema.xsd [15:58] Sanjay: Latest Version URI: http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/2007/12/sca-bpel-1.1-schema.xsd http://docs.oasis-open.org/opencsa/sca-bpel/2008/01/sca-bpel-extensions-1.1-schema.xsd [15:58] scribe: Sanjay moves to adopt this convention [15:58] scribe: Khanderao seconds [15:59] scribe: Anish: Discussion? Any objections? None. Motion is approved [15:59] Danny van der Rijn: FYI I just got Michael's email so the list seems to be working [16:00] scribe: Anish: Three more things to run through: Dieter posted the schema files - any comments? [16:00] scribe: DIeter: They reflect what is in the CD [16:00] scribe: Anish: Ivana also posted the RDDL doc - any comments? [16:00] scribe: Ashok: Requires reference to SCA namespace [16:00] scribe: Ashok: Where it says [TBD] [16:00] scribe: Anish: Ivana can you make the change before the next call? [16:01] scribe: Ivana: Yes. [16:01] scribe: Charlton: I can take the editors AI for makeing the above approved changes [16:01] scribe: Anish: Will the package be ready to send to Mary after the next call? [16:02] scribe: Dieter: I've already placed the three versions in the zip archive and posted it [16:02] scribe: Anish: Ivana to post latest version with changes (RDDL doc) [16:02] scribe: Anish: Any other business? None. Any stragglers? Have Danny, Ivana and Najeeb. Meeting adjourned. -Charlton. -- Charlton Barreto charltonb@adobe.com +1.408.536.4496 p +1.415.627.7156 m
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