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Subject: Raw chat log of 2009-01-12 telcon
Mark Combellack: - Roll Call http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/membership.php?wg_abbrev=sca-j - Appointment of scribe. List attached below - Agenda bashing - Approval of minutes from January 9th http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/30616/SCA%20Java%20Minutes%202009-01-09.doc Issue Status: Open: 59 1. Review action items: Action Items that I believe are done: 2009-01-09-02:BryanA to raise a new issue for lack of Conformance section and include text from his proposal for JAVA-96 Action Items that I believe are still to be done: 2008-07-15-2: Vladimir to produce a proposal for JAVA-2 2008-10-06-1: Editors to fix all the other remaining ed issues for WD04 pointed out by Mark, SimonN and Vamsi 2008-10-06-2: Anish - Work with OASIS Staff to get CD01 published - blocked by package name appeal 2008-10-20-1: Simon to write new proposal with textual changes for JAVA-76 2008-11-11-3: Simon to provide proposal for JAVA-6 2008-11-11-5: MikeE and Dave to write up a proposal to JAVA-1 covering the options decided at the Nov F2F 2008-11-11-7: Mark to propose a delta to Simon's action (2008-11-11-6) on JAVA-25 to add support for message correlation on call backs 2008-11-11-8: SimonN to write spec change proposal to resolve JAVA-19 as directed at the Nov F2F 2008-11-11-12: Mark to write proposal for JAVA-46 drawing inspiration from the chat log of day 2 of the November F2F 2008-11-11-13: Dave to work on proposal for JAVA-60 2008-11-11-21: Mark, Jim and Mike to describe their use cases for JAVA-30 2008-11-11-22: Mark to draw up some wording for Direction 1 (as discussed at the November F2F) for JAVA-62 2008-11-11-23: Mark (and others prepared to help) to investigate the WorkManager JEE spec and determine its applicability to SCA for JAVA-62 2008-11-11-27: SimonN to raise issue on brain-damaged definition of @Service annotation (see comments in Nov F2F raw chat log) 2008-11-11-33: Simon to write up proposal for JAVA-67 (not in previous minutes but Simon is sure he has this action item) 2009-01-05-01: Dave to ask Martin to pursue selection of domain name before January 31 through dialog with OASIS people 2009-01-05-02: Simon to find use cases for conversational interactions 2009-01-05-03: Simon to illustrate his proposal for Java-95 with use cases from action item 2009-01-05-02 2009-01-05-04: Jim to illustrate his proposal for Java-95 with use cases from action item 2009-01-05-02 2009-01-09-01: Vamsi to produce proposal for JAVA-117 2. Accepting New Issues a. JAVA-119: JAA Conformance Section http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-119 Discusion: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200901/msg00023.html 3. Blocking Issue discussion a. JAVA-25: Callback Simplification http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-25 Proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200812/msg00015.html 4. SCA-J Cross specification dependencies (To be complete by Jan 21st) The Liaison Committee wants a list of the specifications that SCA-J is dependent. http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200901/msg00013.html Draft response: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200901/msg00020.html 5. Other Open Issues discussion a. JAVA-99: @property and @reference cannot be final proposal: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-99 b. JAVA-52: RequestContext.getCallbackReference() description inadequate proposal: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-52 c. JAVA-101: element not fully described in Java CAA specification proposal: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-101 d. JAVA-30: "Process" Scope http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-30 proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200812/msg00006.html e. JAVA-65: There is no lifecycle defined for SCA Components http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-65 proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200811/msg00095.html f. JAVA-102: Need to have a Name parameter on the @Service annotation proposal: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-102 g. JAVA-62: Clarify what a Component Implementation can do with threads proposal: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-62 6. Deferred blocking issues (Waiting for resolution of ASSEMBLY-94) a. JAVA-95: Simplified stateful implementation mechanism to replace conversations http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-95 Proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200812/msg00021.html Comments from Jim: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200812/msg00098.html 7. AOB --------------------------------------------------------------- Rotating scribe list: Peter Walker Sun Microsystems (1) Roberto Chinnici Sun Microsystems (2) Peter Peshev SAP AG (2) Ron Barack SAP AG (3) Michael Beisiegel IBM (3) Sanjay Patil SAP AG (3) Vladimir Savchenko SAP AG (1) Jim Marino Individual (4) Vamsavardhana Chillakuru IBM (2) Pradeep Simha TIBCO Software Inc. (5) Mike Edwards IBM (5) Anish Karmarkar Oracle Corporation (6) Yang Lei (2) Plamen Pavlov SAP AG (1) Bryan Aupperle IBM (5) Martin Chapman Oracle Corporation (5) Ashok Malhotra Oracle Corporation (5) Simon Nash Individual (3) Meeraj Kunnumpurath Individual (2) anish: Scribe: Anish Karmarkar anish: Title: Agenda bashing anish: Agenda approved anish: Title: Approval of jan 9th 2009 minutes anish: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/30616/SCA%20Java%20Minutes%202009-01-09.doc anish: Minutes approved anish: Title: issue status anish: 59 open issues anish: Title: Action items anish: Done -- anish: 2009-01-09-02: BryanA to raise a new issue for lack of Conformance section and include text from his proposal for JAVA-96 anish: Dave: don't know what "2009-01-05-01: Dave to ask Martin to pursue selection of domain name before January 31 through dialog with OASIS people " is anish: Simon: This is about Java-28. Ashok made a comment that Martin is member of TAB and this was to have a dialogue thru OASIS staff anish: Ashok: isn't this moot now that we will have the domain oasisopen.org? anish: Simon: it isn't completed and need a few weeks anish: Ashok: this is in the process and why don't we hold off on this anish: Dave: so should I sit on this for a while anish: Ashok: i would close it and if it comes up or doesn't work out, we can start it again anish: Mark: i'll mark that AI as closed anish: s/Title/Topic/g anish: Topic: New Issue JAVA-119 - JAA Conformance Section anish: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200901/msg00023.html anish: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-119 anish: Bryan explains his issue anish: Some of the proposal text depends on resolution of issue 60 anish: Motion: m: Bryan s: MikeE to accept new issue 119 anish: Motion approved w/o anish: Question about Full majority? anish: Dave: we do have 66.666% anish: Mark: the motion is approved with the right number of people on the call. The new issue is opened anish: Topic: JAVA-25: Callback Simplification http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-25 Proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200812/msg00015.html anish: <Simon on a train dialing with a mobile. May not be able to speak> anish: Simon not able to speak. Moving on to the next agenda item. anish: Topic: SCA-J Cross specification dependencies (To be complete by Jan 21st) The Liaison Committee wants a list of the specifications that SCA-J is dependent. http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200901/msg00013.html Draft response: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200901/msg00020.html anish: Dave: Liaison would like to know which SCA specs our specs depends on wrt conformance anish: Dave explains his email anish: Dave's proposal: anish: All of our specs depend on Assembly and Policy, in addition; Java CAA - nothing additional Java C&I - requires compliance to CAA Spring C&I - Does it really depend on CAA? EJB Binding - nothing additional anish: MikeE: some of the later changes we've made has dependances in Spring on CAA. Some issue resolutions have not been included in the Spring spec anish: Dave: k, so spring C&I does have a dependency on CAA anish: ... so i could craft a response based on the above and send it to the Liaison committee anish: Simon: what about JEE spec? anish: Dave: didn't want to touch it Unknown action: /ping anish ping anish: Dave: JEE would dependent on assembly, policy, CAA and EJB binding anish: Simon: can we include the JEE part in the response as well anish: Dave: would be happy to anish: Action: Dave to get back to the liaison committee with the above dependency list anish: Topic: JAVA-25: Callback Simplification http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-25 Proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200812/msg00015.html anish: back to Java 25 as simon is back Mike Edwards: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200812/msg00096.html anish: Simon: changes start @ 6.7.1 anish: Line 619 (in open office 2.4) Mike Edwards: The problem I have with doing this now is that it collides with the issues regarding Conversational Mike Edwards: this will change a lot if conversational goes away anish: Simon: the section on stateful callback is not updated and cannot be till issue 95 is resolved anish: ... so should constrain ourselves to stateless callbacks anish: ... good comments from Dave anish: ... will rewrite based on Dave's comments anish: MikeE: 1st para is confusing anish: Simon: was a clumsy c-and-p, will fix it anish: Simon explains OrderService and OrderServiceCallback example anish: Dave has already sent comments on the examples in his email anish: Simon: the implementation code example gets a little tricky anish: Simon: For synchronous case, it is easy. For async case, it gets a little tricky wrt dealing with the injected proxy, perhaps persisting it somewhere. anish: Jim: conversation callbacks would make this simple anish: Simon: yes it would, it leads me to wonder how useful stateless callbacks are when things are async anish: Jim: we never use them anish: Simon: Q - how useful is async case with stateless callback? anish: MikeE: do think it is useful anish: ... we shouldn't complicate the concepts here with complicated examples, but this is useful anish: Simon: let's move on. The client code is straight forward anish: Jim: when u do getStatus() in queryStatus() could you always return a value that says nothing is available? anish: Simon: the reason for callbacks is to return something when something is available anish: ... ok, we could change the example to return 'unknown status' and add a comment saying that something needs to be done for async response anish: Anish: why would u use callback if you don't expect async at least in some cases anish: Jim: u can do things like multiple updates, we use this anish: Simon: we could add an example like that. Looking for fairly plausible scenario which isn't too complicated. anish: ... and use Jim's approach of 'status unknown' sync case anish: Simon: The last para in that section (6.7.1) contains the disclaimer regarding correlation anish: Simon: section 6.7.2 is not changed as it depends on issue 95 anish: ... 6.7.3 is deleted anish: ... The next change is in 6.7.4 anish: <some issue with line numbers and seeing changes in open office> anish: Simon: we should continue discussions when we figure out the line number issue. anish: Discussion to continue later anish: Topic: JAVA-99: @property and @reference cannot be final proposal: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-99 Mark Combellack: Anyone else struggling to hear? anish: Anish explains the issue anish: Jim: i think the complier would issue an error anish: Simon: don't know how the compiler would even know the semantics of the annotation anish: Jim: scratch that, it wouldn't anish: Simon: would injection even work? anish: Jim: would work if the field is in the constructor anish: Anish: the problem is that you would get runtime error and the cases where u won't are useful anish: Jim: no problem with this, but we should be precise anish: Anish: planning to make it illegal in every case anish: Anish: the compliant runtime would be required to not run the component/code anish: Simon: would be easy to look at the annotations thru reflection and make sure they comply anish: Jim: would be fine with that anish: Anish moves to resolve issue 99 by making @Reference and @Property annotation illegal on final fields anish: Simon seconds anish: Motion approved w/o anish: Resolution: issue 99 resolved with above proposal anish: Action: Editors (anish) to include proper wordings for issue 99 in the spec inline with the resolution anish: Topic: JAVA-52: RequestContext.getCallbackReference() description inadequate proposal: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-52 anish: Anish explains the issue anish: It is about getCallbackReference() and what should happen when it gets called in a non-callback scenario anish: Simon: do we have a precedence for this wrt null vs. exception anish: Mark: we have one where it returns null anish: Simon: then we should be consistent with that Mark Combellack: CallableReferene.getConversation() does return null if no conversation anish: Mark: service reference has a getCallback() too, we should include that anish: Dave: already included when we accepted the issue anish: Anish moves to resolve issue 52 by adding text to getCallback() and getCallbackReference() methods that say that it'll return null when called in the non-callback case anish: Simon seconds anish: Motion approved w/o anish: Resolution: issue 52 resolved with above proposal anish: Action: Editors (anish) to include appropriate wordings for issue 52 in the spec inline with the resolution anish: Topic: JAVA-101: element not fully described in Java CAA specification proposal: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-101 anish: MikeE: section 3.1 of CAA is supposed to have normative description of interface.java element, but it doesn't anish: ... my proposal is to resolve the issue with the text in JIRA anish: Bryan: the text says: "... MUST be the same interface class." Mark Combellack lowered your hand anish: ... whereas assembly states that it should be compatible anish: MikeE: that was intentional anish: Motion: m:MikeE s:DaveB resolve issue 101 with proposal in JIRA anish: motion approved w/o anish: Resolution: issue 101 is resolved with proposal in JIRA anish: Meeting adjourned
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