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Subject: Raw log of 2009-03-23 telcon


Mark Combellack: - Roll Call
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/membership.php?wg_abbrev=sca-j
- Appointment of scribe. List attached below
- Agenda bashing
- Approval of minutes for 20th March 2009
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/31778/SCA%20Java%20Minutes%202009-03-20.doc


0. Administration
- Issue Status: Open: 15
- Daylight saving started March 8 in the US - calls will be an hour 
earlier for those in Europe from 9th March for 3 weeks
- Reminder: Calls on Friday March 20th and 27th extended to 2 hours 
starting at normal time


1. Review action items:

Action Items that I believe are done:
2009-03-20-03: Anish to raise issue about needed conformance points in 
section 9 of JCI
2009-03-17-01: Mike to raise issue for missing implementation.java 
schema and missing requires and policySets attributes in pseudo-schema
2009-03-20-01: Mike E to raise a new issue about section 3 of c&a spec 
needs annotations added and add missing pseudo schema
2009-02-13-01: Mike to upload artifacts for JAVA-121 into OASIS Open SVN
2009-02-16-01: Mike to fix the usage of "class loader" through out the spec
2009-02-23-02: Mike to provide proposal for JAVA-54
2009-03-23-03: Editors to make sure org.osoa replaced with org.oasisopen

Action Items that I believe are still to be done:
2008-11-11-22: Mark to draw up some wording for Direction 1 (as 
discussed at the November F2F) for JAVA-62
2008-11-11-23: Mark (and others prepared to help) to investigate the 
WorkManager JEE spec and determine its applicability to SCA for JAVA-62
2009-02-23-06: Simon to write proposal for Java 131
2009-03-20-02: Simon to raise an issue about inconsistent normative 
statements with respect to XML/JAXB mapping in section 10


2. List A Issues - Must be resolved before Public Review

a. JAVA-119: JAA Conformance Section
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-119
Updated proposal: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200902/msg00021.html
Alternative proposal: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200903/msg00167.html
Comments from Mike: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200903/msg00171.html


3. Blocked List A Issues - Must be resolved before Public Review waiting 
for updates/proposals

None


4. List B Issues - Nice to resolve before Public Review

a. JAVA-98: Can annotations be inherited
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-98
Original Outline Proposal: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200902/msg00192.html
Alternative Proposal: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200903/msg00059.html
Updated proposal: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200903/msg00150.html


5. Blocked List B Issues - Nice to resolve before Public Review waiting 
for updates/proposals

a. JAVA-129: Problems with Example 2b in chapter 7
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-65
Updated proposal: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200903/msg00097.html
Blocked by JAVA-98


6. New Issues (Requires 2/3s of Voting members to open)

a. JAVA-144: Possible confusion over whether @Service can specify both a 
class and an interface
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-144
Proposal in Jira

b. JAVA-145: Constructor selection algorithm is not well defined
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-145
Proposal in Jira

c. JAVA-146: JCI spec section 9 (<implementation.java>) does not have 
any 2119 keywords
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-146
Proposal in Jira

d. JAVA-147: <implementation.java/> - Missing schema and missing 
definitions in normative section
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-147
Proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200903/msg00174.html

e. JAVA-148: Java CAA missing full definition of annotations applying to 
Java Interfaces
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-148
Proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200903/msg00175.html


7. List C "10 Minute" Issues

a. JAVA-1: Accessing SCA Services from non-SCA component code
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-1
Discussion: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200903/msg00160.html
Updated Proposal (PDF): 
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-j/download.php/31769/sca-javacaa-1.1-spec-cd02-rev3%20Issue1%20rev%203.pdf 



8. Other List C Issues

a. JAVA-139: Default value for SCA property is not supported for java 
implementations
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-139
Outline of proposal in Jira

b. JAVA-127: Long running request/response operations
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-127
Proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200812/msg00089.html

c. JAVA-143: Guidelines for dealing with cyclic references refers to an 
impossible situation
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-143
Proposal in Jira


9. AOB


---------------------------------------------------------------
Rotating scribe list:

Ron Barack SAP AG (3)
Michael Beisiegel IBM (3)
Sanjay Patil SAP AG (3)
Jim Marino Individual (4)
Pradeep Simha TIBCO Software Inc. (5)
Vamsavardhana Chillakuru IBM (3)
Plamen Pavlov SAP AG (2)
Graham Charters IBM (1)
Meeraj Kunnumpurath Individual (3)
Anish Karmarkar Oracle Corporation (9)
Yang Lei (5)
Ashok Malhotra Oracle Corporation (8 )
Mike Edwards IBM (8 )
Simon Nash Individual (6)
Martin Chapman Oracle Corporation (8 )
Bryan Aupperle IBM (9)

Please change your name from 'anonymous' using the Settings button

anish: Scribe: Anish Karmarkar

anish: ScribeNick: anish

anish: Topic: Agenda bashing

anish: Agenda approved

anish: Topic: Approval of minutes for 20th March 2009

anish: Resolution: Minutes for 20th March 2009 located at 
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/31778/SCA%20Java%20Minutes%202009-03-20.doc 
are approved

anish: Topic: AI reivew

anish: No updates

anish: Topic: List A Issues - Must be resolved before Public Review

anish: a. JAVA-119: JAA Conformance Section
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-119
Updated proposal: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200902/msg00021.html
Alternative proposal: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200903/msg00167.html

anish: Comments on version 3 from MikeE and SimonN

anish: MikeE: Java version 1.5 should be changed to read J2SE version 
5.0 or in full Java 2 Standard Edition version 5.0 but Simon has pointed 
out that it is no longer "Java 2"

Mark Combellack: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200903/msg00171.html

anish: MikeE: spelling mistake s/compnent/component/

anish: Mike: comment about requiring section 10

anish: SimonN: didn't get that comment

anish: MikeE: Ok,ignore that comment

anish: MikeE: for the C&I, point 5 didn't like the wordings. suggested 
different wordings

anish: ... suggests "This specification permits an implementation class 
to use any and all of the APIs and
annotations...."

anish: ... Java C&I spec does not say anything about a minimum level of 
J2SE compliance

anish: ... will deal with it as part of issue that deals with section 9

Mark Combellack: Simons comments in 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200903/msg00182.html

anish: Anish: all the changes except for the one on section 10 look ok to me

anish: SimonN: there was a TBD, i have provided the wordings for TBD

anish: ... two places where it says "Model", we don't need that

anish: Anish: that is fine with me

anish: No other comments

anish: Motion: m:Anish s:SimonN Resolve issue 119 using the proposal 
YAAP version 3 modified to include SimonN's comments and MikeE's 
comments except for the one about section 10

anish: motion approved w/o

anish: Mark: all the issue that must be resolved before PR are not resolved

anish: s/not/now/

anish: Topic: Issue 98

anish: a. JAVA-98: Can annotations be inherited
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-98
Original Outline Proposal: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200902/msg00192.html
Alternative Proposal: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200903/msg00059.html
Updated proposal: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200903/msg00150.html

anish: SimonN: no new proposal sent out since friday

anish: ... two emails about two ways to define intents using annotations

anish: SimonN: Anish sent out an example, but there is lot more going on 
under the surface

Mark Combellack: anish email: 
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200903/msg00170.html
Simin email http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200903/msg00181.html

anish: ... Need to define the constant. The constant are defined in the 
specific intent annotation definition. THey would have to be moved 
somewhere else

anish: ... Also the constant has to be imported

anish: ... We have a constants interface, it could there. But there are 
many intents defined. I think it would be a maintenance nightmare. The 
present structure is better.

Mark Combellack lowered your hand

anish: Anish: yes agree on importing constants

Mike Edwards: The complicated bit is really the RULE for combining stuff 
at 2 different levels

Mike Edwards: not whether there are 2 ways to express something at each 
level

Mike Edwards: Getting rid of inheritance simplifies the RULE for 
combining stuff

jeff.mischkinsky: (Autoreply) On break -- allegedly imbibing caffeine

anish: SimonN: wrt typing of extra character. There is more than that, 
but ever time a user defined intent is defined the organization is harder

anish: ... Section 7.2 defines the rules

anish: ... The simple rule should be: more specific intent should be 
exactly as before, and it is pure syntactic sugar

Mark Combellack lowered your hand

Mark Combellack: If anyone is not on the role, could you add yourself to 
the queue so we can hear you squeek so I can check for 2/3rd for new 
issue opening.

anish: MikeE: suggest we figure out the rules to combine these things first

Simon Nash: 
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-j/email/archives/200903/msg00181.html

anish: Simon explains the rules in his emails

anish: MikeE: java does not allow multiple annotations of the same type

Mark Combellack lowered your hand

anish: MikeeE: we need to add a rule wrt mutually exclusive intents

anish: s/MikeeE/MikeE/

anish: DaveE: we have no notion of mutually exclusive definition in the 
annotations, we also have default qualifiers that need to be taken into 
account

anish: DaveE: mutual exclusiveness is not part of the @Intent annotation

anish this is truely getting very complex. Sigh. I'm leaning towards no 
inheritance now

anish regardless of whether we have two ways to specify intents

anish: Motion: m: SimonN: s: MikeE As a direction towards resolving 
issue 98 we disallow intent annotation inheritance (get rid of @Inheritance)

anish: s/@Inheritance/@Inherited

Simon Nash: (for intents)

anish: motion approved w/o

anish: Action: SimonN to summarize in email where we are wrt all the 
nasty cases for which we don't have an answer

anish: Topic: New issues

anish: a. JAVA-144: Possible confusion over whether @Service can specify 
both a class and an interface
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-144
Proposal in Jira

anish: SimonN explains the issue

anish: Motion: m:SimonN s:MikeE Open issue 144

anish: motion approved w/o

anish: Topic: AOB

anish: no AOB

anish: Graham Charters is back from LOA

anish: Meeting adjourned


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