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Subject: Raw minutes for 6 April
[10:19] Mark Combellack: - Roll Call http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/membership.php?wg_abbrev=sca-j - Appointment of scribe. List attached below - Agenda bashing - Approval of minutes for 3rd April 2009 http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/31949/SCA%20Java%20Minutes%202009-04-03.doc 0. Administration - Issue Status: Open: 17 1. Review action items: Action Items that I believe are done: Action Items that I believe are still to be done: 2008-11-11-22: Mark to draw up some wording for Direction 1 (as discussed at the November F2F) for JAVA-62 2008-11-11-23: Mark (and others prepared to help) to investigate the WorkManager JEE spec and determine its applicability to SCA for JAVA-62 2. List A Issues - Must be resolved before Public Review None 3. Blocked List A Issues - Must be resolved before Public Review waiting for updates/proposals None 4. List B Issues - Nice to resolve before Public Review a. JAVA-98: Can annotations be inherited (Limit discussion to approx 30 minutes) http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-98 Original Outline Proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200902/msg00192.html Alternative Proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200903/msg00059.html Summary email: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200903/msg00211.html Updated proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200904/msg00018.html 5. Blocked List B Issues - Nice to resolve before Public Review waiting for updates/proposals None 6. New Issues (Requires 2/3s of Voting members to open) a. JAVA-154: Incorrect use of ##any in Java Schemas http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-154 Proposal in Jira b. JAVA-155: Inconsistent normative statements in Chapter 10 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-155 Proposal in Jira 7. List C "10 Minute" Issues a. JAVA-144: Possible confusion over whether @Service can specify both a class and an interface http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-144 Proposal in Jira b. JAVA-148: Java CAA missing full definition of annotations applying to Java Interfaces http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-148 Proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200903/msg00175.html c. JAVA-152: Java C&I should have had corresponding changes in JAVA-134 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-152 Proposal in Jira d. JAVA-153: Java CI should have corresponding changes in JAVA-125 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-153 Proposal in Jira e. JAVA-1: Accessing SCA Services from non-SCA component code http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-1 Discussion: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200903/msg00160.html Updated Proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200903/msg00227.html Updated Proposal (PDF): http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-j/download.php/31871/sca-javacaa-1.1-spec-cd02-rev3%20Issue1%20rev%204.pdf 8. Other List C Issues a. JAVA-139: Default value for SCA property is not supported for java implementations http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-139 Outline of proposal in Jira b. JAVA-127: Long running request/response operations http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-127 Proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200812/msg00089.html c. JAVA-143: Guidelines for dealing with cyclic references refers to an impossible situation http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-143 Proposal in Jira d. JAVA-131: @Callback injection could be NULL (expanded to include refs, property and re-injection and callback http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-131 Proposed direction for resolution: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200904/msg00002.html 9. AOB --------------------------------------------------------------- Rotating scribe list: Ron Barack SAP AG (3) Michael Beisiegel IBM (3) Sanjay Patil SAP AG (3) Jim Marino Individual (4) Pradeep Simha TIBCO Software Inc. (5) Vamsavardhana Chillakuru IBM (3) Plamen Pavlov SAP AG (2) Meeraj Kunnumpurath Individual (3) Mike Edwards IBM (8 ) Martin Chapman Oracle Corporation (8 ) Bryan Aupperle IBM (9) Anish Karmarkar Oracle Corporation (10) Ashok Malhotra Oracle Corporation (9) Yang Lei (6) Graham Charters IBM (2) Simon Nash Individual (7)
[10:32] Bryan Aupperle: Scribe: Bryan Aupperle
[10:32] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: Agenda Bashing
[10:33] Bryan Aupperle: Note Simon is not on call, so we may have to adjust accordingly
[10:33] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: Approval of Minutes
[10:33] Bryan Aupperle: No comments so Minutes are approved
[10:34] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: Action Items
[10:34] Bryan Aupperle: No progress on either open action item.
[10:34] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: Issue 98 (Simon is now on the call).
[10:35] Bryan Aupperle: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-98
[10:35] Mark Combellack: Updated email from Simon is: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200904/msg00025.html
[10:36] Bryan Aupperle: Simon reviews latest update.
[10:38] Bryan Aupperle: Particular a review of the differences between interaction and implementation intents.
[10:40] Bryan Aupperle: Ashok: There are some transaction implementation intents that can be applied to methods.
[10:40] Ashok: TransactedOne way and ImmediateOneway are implementation intents that could be applied to a method.
[10:43] Bryan Aupperle: Simon: This will require small modifications to parts A) and C)
[10:51] Bryan Aupperle: Simon Section D) is an attempt to be very clear about the mapping of intents to the componentType.
[10:52] Bryan Aupperle: Simon: Section D) will also need some minor changes to deal with implementation intents on methods.
[10:54] Bryan Aupperle: AI (Simon) Create formal proposal based on today's update as modified due to implementation intents on methods.
[10:56] Bryan Aupperle: Mike: Some aspects of section D) repeat information already in spec text (point 3 and possibly point 5).
[11:01] Bryan Aupperle: Simon: Point 4 may not be quite correct. It is not clear when intents map to a service vs. the interface of the service.
[11:01] Bryan Aupperle: Simon/Mike: better to always place on interface.
[11:04] Bryan Aupperle: Mike: This seems pretty complicated. Perhaps a simplification would be that method level intents can only be applied to an interface.
[11:05] Bryan Aupperle: Simon: What about method level implementation intents?
[11:05] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: There is no implication from policy that implementation intents cannot be applied to interfaces.
[11:07] anish i'll repeat my comment from last call -- various variables here are: is it a service or a reference, is it an interface or an implementation, is the intent qualified or unqualified, is the intent interaction or implementation intent? It is a method or a class/interface? The rules depend on answers to these questions.
[11:07] anish Simon has done a great job of putting this all together and making it simpler, but it is still complex and I would support anything that simplifies this
[11:08] Dave Booz +1 to Anish
[11:09] Bryan Aupperle: Simon: Mike's suggestion for limiting method level intents to interfaces simplifies a number of aspects of this.
[11:11] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: Issue 154 (New)
[11:11] Bryan Aupperle: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-154
[11:12] Bryan Aupperle: Proposal in JIRA
[11:13] Bryan Aupperle: Dave review issues
[11:13] Bryan Aupperle: Motion (Dave, second Mike) Open issue 154
[11:13] anish can we resolve this now?
[11:13] Bryan Aupperle: Resolution: Motion passes w/o
[11:14] Bryan Aupperle: Motion: (Anish, second Dave) Resolve issue 154 with proposal in JIRA)
[11:15] Bryan Aupperle: Resolution: motion passes w/o
[11:15] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: Issue 155 (New)
[11:15] Bryan Aupperle: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-155
[11:16] Bryan Aupperle: Proposal in JIRA
[11:16] Bryan Aupperle: Simon reviews issue
[11:18] Bryan Aupperle: Section numbering is based on CD03 rev 3
[11:18] Bryan Aupperle: s/CD03/CD02/
[11:19] Bryan Aupperle: Motion (Simon, second Bryan) Open Issue 155
[11:19] Bryan Aupperle: Resolution: motion passes w/o
[11:21] Bryan Aupperle: Simon raises question about the need to normatively define a mapping from WSDL to Java
[11:21] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: Issue 144
[11:22] Bryan Aupperle: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-144
[11:22] Bryan Aupperle: Proposal in JIRA
[11:22] Bryan Aupperle: Simon reviews proposal
[11:27] Bryan Aupperle: Mike: Proposal needs be clear that it is the service interface that is being defined.
[11:27] Bryan Aupperle: Simon: Service itself is also being defined.
[11:28] Bryan Aupperle: Mike: Then the words need be clearer.
[11:28] Simon Nash: Another possibility is to use the Java implementation class itself to define a service offered by a component and the interface of the service.
[11:29] Dave Booz: 94 The Java implementation class itself, as opposed to an interface, can also define a service offered 95 by a component.
[11:31] anish: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-j/download.php/31857/sca-javaci-1.1-spec-wd06.pdf
[11:37] Bryan Aupperle: Motion (Simon, second Anish) Resolve issue 144 by replacing the sentence indicated in JIRA (line 94 WD06) with the sentence proposed above.
[11:37] Bryan Aupperle: Resolution: motion passes w/o
[11:38] Bryan Aupperle: Mike: This section of the spec was written before we allowed lists of services.
[11:39] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: Issue 148
[11:39] Bryan Aupperle: http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-148
[11:39] Bryan Aupperle: Proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200903/msg00175.html
[11:40] Mark Combellack: Looking at section 3.4
[11:41] Bryan Aupperle: Mike reviews the proposal
[11:43] Bryan Aupperle: Simon: Wouldn't it be helpful to have a list of annotations allowed on an interface?
[11:43] Bryan Aupperle: Mike: You would need two lists, one for interfaces and one for classes used for interface definitions.
[11:47] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: some of the annotations, but not consistently, point out that they can only be used on a class and not an interface.
[11:48] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: So it would be good to have the two lists.
[11:53] Mike Edwards: New normative statement for the end of Section 3.4:
[11:53] Mike Edwards: A Java interface referenced by the @interface attribute or the @callbackInterface attribute of an <interface.java/> element MAY contain any of the SCA Java Annotations defined in Section 9 of the Java Common Annotations and APIs Specification except for the @AllowsPassByReference @ComponentName @Constructor @Context @Destroy @EagerInit @Init @Intent @Property @Qualifier @Reference @Scope @Service annotations. [JCA30006]
[11:55] Mark Combellack: We are getting close to being out of time
[11:57] Mike Edwards: Here is a full proposal
[11:57] Mike Edwards: Resolve Issue 148 with a new section 3.4 reading as follows
[11:57] Mike Edwards: 3.4SCA Java Annotations for Interface Classes A Java implementation class referenced by the @interface attribute or the @callbackInterface attribute of an <interface.java/> element MAY contain any of the SCA Java Annotations defined in Section 9 of the Java Common Annotations and APIs Specification except for the @Intent and @Qualifier annotations. [JCA30005] A Java interface referenced by the @interface attribute of an <interface.java/> element MAY contain any of the SCA Java Annotations defined in Section 9 of the Java Common Annotations and APIs Specification except for the @AllowsPassByReference @Callback @ComponentName @Constructor @Context @Destroy @EagerInit @Init @Intent @Property @Qualifier @Reference @Scope @Service annotations. [JCA30006] A Java interface referenced by the @callbackInterface attribute of an <interface.java/> element MAY contain any of the SCA Java Annotations defined in Section 9 of the Java Common Annotations and APIs Specification except for the @AllowsPassByReference @ComponentName @Constructor @Context @Destroy @EagerInit @Init @Intent @Property @Qualifier @Reference @Scope @Service annotations. [JCA30007]
[11:59] Bryan Aupperle: Motion (Mike, second Simon) Resolve issue 148 with the text above.
[11:59] Bryan Aupperle: Motion (Simon, second Mike) Remove @Callback from first list and add to the second list).
[12:00] Mark Combellack: I think I am going to have to call time on this since there is a call staring immediately after us - sorry
[12:00] Mike Edwards: yes - call time Mark
[12:00] Martin C: i want to squeak tho
[12:00] Bryan Aupperle: Anish: What happens if annotation, not allowed is used?
[12:01] anish: sorry, lost track of time
[12:01] Simon Nash: Mike.. I think it does need to say MUST NOT contain the others
[12:01] Bryan Aupperle: Time expires and motions are not acted upon.
[12:01] anish: i do think that there should be be an error 'MUST NOT' or MUST raise an error or something like that
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