Raw minutes for 30 Nov.

[10:03] Mark Combellack: - Roll Call
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/membership.php?wg_abbrev=sca-j
- Appointment of scribe. List attached below
- Agenda bashing
- Approval of minutes for 16th November 2009
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/35364/SCA%20Java%20Minutes%202009-11-16.doc

0. Administration
- Issue Status: Open: 15
- SCA-J CAA and C&I Public Review ended on 7th August 2009
- Consider cancelling calls around Christmas and New Year?
- 21st December, 28th December and 4th January

1. Review action items:

Action Items that I believe are done:
2009-11-09-02: TC to review CAA Test Assertions and raise any concerns.

Action Items that I believe are still to be done:
2009-07-06-01: Dave B to raise to liaison (so that other C&Is can consider and possibly assembly) that non-XML based C&Is should state how the conversion of property values happens
2009-07-13-03: Anish to create a proposal for the list of annotations which make sense for JAVA-166
2009-07-17-01: Mike to create an example of the componentType introspection (JAVA-5
2009-09-28-05: Dave to look at unstated prereqs for JCI-TA-8005/8006
2009-11-09-01: Anish to point out specific locations for editorial corrections (s/./,/) for issue 150 proposal.

2. New Issues (Requires 2/3rds)

None

3. Open Issues with proposals ready for discussion (JAA and C&I)

a. JAVA-127: Long running request/response operations
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-127 (Mike)
Latest discussion: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200911/msg00051.html
Updated proposal (PDF): http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-j/download.php/35238/sca-javacaa-1.1-spec-cd03-rev1_Issue127b.pdf
Updated proposal (MS Word): http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-j/download.php/35237/sca-javacaa-1.1-spec-cd03-rev1_Issue127b.doc
Presentation slides (Java_Issue_127_Long_Running_Operations_01.odp) http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200911/bin00000.bin

b. JAVA-168: Conversion rules for property values are not specified
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-168 (Dave)
Latest discussion: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200911/msg00048.html
Updated proposal (sca-javacaa-1.1-spec-cd03-rev1+Issue168.doc): http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200911/doc00003.doc

4. Open Issues with proposals ready for discussion (Spring/EJB/JEE)

None

5. Other

a. Updated version of the POJO TestCases document and artifacts
Latest discussion: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200911/msg00055.html
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-j/download.php/35249/sca-j-pojo-ci-1.1-testcases-wd02.pdf
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-j/download.php/35248/sca-j-pojo-ci-1.1-testcases-wd02.odt

6. Issues waiting for updated proposals (JAA and C&I)

a. JAVA-46: equals() method on ServiceReference and CallableReference
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-46
Waiting for updated proposal (Mark)

b. JAVA-54: Section 7.1 of the Java CAA Specification is unclear
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-154
Waiting for proposal (Mike)

c. JAVA-179: Need type support for @Property when used with SDO
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-179
Proposal in Jira as 2 word documents (Dave)
http://www.osoa.org/jira/secure/attachment/10541/sca-javacaa-1.1-spec-cd03%2Bissue179.doc
http://www.osoa.org/jira/secure/attachment/10540/sca-javaci-1.1-spec-cd01-rev1%2Bissue179.doc
Simon's JAXB annotation investigation: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200909/msg00024.html
Waiting for updated proposal (Dave)

d. JAVA-192: JAX-WS annotations imply a WSDL based binding (binding.ws)
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-192 (Dave)
Waiting for updated proposal (Dave)

7. Issues waiting for updated proposals (Spring/EJB/JEE)

a. JAVA-166: Spring C&I does not say anything about SCA annotations
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-166
Waiting for list of Annotations (Anish Action Item)

b. JAVA-114: Spring CI runtime behaviour when annotation rules are violated
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-114
Proposal in Jira
Blocked by JAVA-166

c. JAVA-109: Property and reference names computed from SCA annotations in web modules not specified explicitly
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-109
Proposal in Jira
Waiting for updated proposal (Vamsi)

d. JAVA-182: SCA Spring C & I specs needs to refactor text under abstract and introduction
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-182
No proposal (Ram)

e. JAVA-174: Consider portlets in the SCA JEE specification
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-174

f. JAVA-91: Java EE Spec: Need to define the derivation of the name of a component contributed to the Domain by an application.composite file
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-91
Waiting for updated proposal (Mike)

g. JAVA-93: JEE Integration spec needs to define how effective CT is calculated
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-93
Waiting for updated proposal (Anish)

h. JAVA-108: RFC2119 Language is needed for the SCA-JEE Specification
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-108
Waiting for updated proposal

i. JAVA-88: Java EE Spec: The @archive attribute of the implementation.jee element needs fixing
http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-88
No proposal
Plamen to check whether on his informal JEE issues list

8. AOB

a. Straggler roll call

---------------------------------------------------------------
Rotating scribe list:

Graham Charters IBM (5)
Yang Lei IBM (11)
Plamen Pavlov SAP AG (3)
Simon Nash Individual (11)
Anish Karmarkar Oracle Corporation (13)
Martin Chapman Oracle Corporation (14)
Mike Edwards IBM (15)
Bryan Aupperle IBM (19)
Ashok Malhotra Oracle Corporation (16)

[10:39] Bryan Aupperle: Scribe: Bryan Aupperle

[10:39] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: Agenda Bashing

[10:39] Bryan Aupperle: No changes

[10:40] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: Holiday Schedule

[10:41] Bryan Aupperle: Cancel 21 and 28 Dec. Calls

[10:42] Bryan Aupperle: Meeting is now quorate: 6/10

[10:43] Bryan Aupperle: Motion: Bryan, second Dave - Cancel calls on 21 and 28 Dec.

[10:43] Bryan Aupperle: Resolution: Motion passes w/o

[10:43] Bryan Aupperle: Topic Approval of Minutes of 16 Nov.

[10:43] Bryan Aupperle: No comments

[10:44] Bryan Aupperle: Resolution Minutes approved

[10:44] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: Action Items

[10:44] Bryan Aupperle: General TC action to review testcases presumed done

[10:45] Bryan Aupperle: All other action items are ongoing

[10:48] Bryan Aupperle: Anish: Some of our folks are looking at deficiencies in JAX-WS wrt async invocation.  Would be nice if JAX-WS addressed the wholes.  One way would be for this TC to propose changes to the JAX-WS group.

[10:49] Ashok: s/wholes/holes/

[10:49] Bryan Aupperle: Anish:  There are also some technical details with respect to exceptions etc. that have been expressed I have not fully considered.  I would like to not resolve this issue until fully considering this.

[10:51] Bryan Aupperle: Mike: The JAX-WS is aware of the proposal and has been provided links to the various documents.  He is lukewarm to this making it into the JAX-WS spec anytime soon.

[10:52] Bryan Aupperle: Anish:  Does this mean there is no chance of it making JAX-WS 2.2?

[10:53] Bryan Aupperle: Mike: That is my read.  Current JSR work is focused on Java 7.

[10:55] Bryan Aupperle: Anish:  We should figure out what we want and then pass it on as a proposal to JAX-WS for consideration.  It would be awful if we end up with two ways of providing asynchronicity on the server side.

[10:56] Bryan Aupperle: Dave:  Sending is OK so long as we do not delay our work.

[10:58] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: Are the concerns with Asynch Handlers and Transactions related or they are orthogonal?

[10:58] Bryan Aupperle: Anish:  Orthogonal

[10:59] Bryan Aupperle: Mike: Transactions and long-running activities are a tricky combination.

[11:00] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: Long-running activities are often dealt with in the same manner as asynch messages wrt transactions.

[11:01] Bryan Aupperle: Ashok:  We at least need to say something about transactions and long-running operations.

[11:01] anish bryan, i'm online, if you want me to scribe

[11:02] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: This may require updates in policy.

[11:03] Bryan Aupperle: Mike reviews proposed changes

[11:11] Bryan Aupperle: Anish: What happens if the generated interface is used as an SCA interface?

[11:12] Bryan Aupperle: Mike: That should be OK - handled by SCA60005.

[11:15] Bryan Aupperle: Anish: Does 60005 need to state that the AsynchInvocation intent is needed?

[11:15] Bryan Aupperle: s/SCA6/JCA6/

[11:18] Bryan Aupperle: Mike: I would expect the intent to be there in any circumstance.

[11:19] Bryan Aupperle: Anish: I get that for the Java, but where is the WSDL extension required?

[11:20] Bryan Aupperle: Mike: The AsynchInvocation intent is no different than any others and already covered.

[11:21] anish: section 11 is actually quite sparse and mostly deals with jax-ws

[11:21] Mark Combellack lowered your hand

[11:24] Bryan Aupperle: Would a lack of AsynchInvocation intent at the client end prevent interface matching?

[11:24] Bryan Aupperle: Should not automatically fail, will depend on a binding's capabilities.

[11:24] anish: interestingly JCA10006 says: For SCA service interfaces defined using interface.java, the Java interface MUST NOT contain the additional client-side asynchronous polling and callback methods defined by JAX-WS.

[11:26] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: Where are the rules that define mapping of Java intents to WSDL extensions?

[11:26] Bryan Aupperle: Anish: Yes, that is my concern - not specific to the AsynchInvocation intent.

[11:27] Bryan Aupperle: Mike: We may need additional content in section 11.

[11:29] Bryan Aupperle: Art the rules for mapping intents in the componentType sufficient for this?

[11:29] Bryan Aupperle: Mike: They may be, but we need to look carefully.

[11:30] Bryan Aupperle: Mike: Anish, what are the concerns about exceptions?

[11:31] Bryan Aupperle: Anish: I've not read all the e-mails yet.

[11:32] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: Conversion rules for property values are not specified
Issue Java-168 http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/JAVA-168 (Dave)
Latest discussion: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200911/msg00048.html
Updated proposal (sca-javacaa-1.1-spec-cd03-rev1+Issue168.doc): http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-j/200911/doc00003.doc

[11:35] Bryan Aupperle: Mike: Comments on his e-mail

[11:36] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: I will look at primitive types.  I missed that.

[11:37] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: Unannotated classes relates to the issue on the broader question of data bindings and mappings.  That is why I narrowed this to only JAX-B annotated classes.

[11:38] Bryan Aupperle: Mike: Problem is that JAX-B does not require annotations if a class has a clear mapping.

[11:40] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: That will only occur in a bottom up case - if you start with WSDL/XML and create Java, the JAX-B annotations will be created.  The bottom-up case is where extensibility is needed.

[11:40] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: That will only occur in a bottom up case - if you start with WSDL/XML and create Java, the JAX-B annotations will be created.  The bottom-up case is where extensibility is needed.

[11:43] Bryan Aupperle: Mike: Not saying anything can lead to portability problems.

[11:49] Bryan Aupperle: Anish: If we say that an unannotated class uses a JAX-B mapping then how would SDO be enabled?

[11:51] Bryan Aupperle: Mike: Problem that there is no default data mapping for properties.

[11:55] Bryan Aupperle: Mike: Why the MUST not requirement?  Assembly has some text that covers this.

[11:56] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: This is due to life cycle considerations and potential injection failures?

[11:56] Mark Combellack: Warning: Approx 5 minutes left

[11:57] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: I will look at the proposed changes wrt properties where an annotation is not required.

[11:59] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: JAX-B is flexible on XML validation.  I have not allowed for it since meta-data would be needed to define how to handle failures?

[12:00] Bryan Aupperle: Anish: Since it is for a specific type, why wouldn't validation be does as part of deploying the composite?

[12:00] Bryan Aupperle: Dave: That would make sense.

[12:01] Bryan Aupperle: Time

[12:01] Bryan Aupperle: Topic: AOB

[12:02] Bryan Aupperle: Straggler role

[12:02] Bryan Aupperle: Meeting adjounred.

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