Ray, we are postulating a model where forms are sent directly to an SRU server. The names of the fields become the names of the parameters. So, if you expect parameters with names like qi1, then there MUST be a field named qi1. If the form has space for three query terms, then there will be fields qi1, qi2 and qi3 in the form and those fields may or may not be sent to the server depending on what sort of form fields they were and their values. So, you can’t count on all the qi* fields showing up in the request, just because they were defined in the form. You might only get qi1 and qi3. Worse yet, if the index fields where hidden and had values, then you might get all three qi* fields but only one term field because it was the only one filled in. You’d see qi1, qi2, qi3 and qt2. If the Booleans were also hidden (because the form designer wanted implicit ANDs between the terms), then you’d see qb1, qb2 as well. Ralph From: Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress [mailto:rden@loc.gov]
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 10:35 AM
To: LeVan,Ralph; Hammond,Tony; 'Matthew Dovey'; 'OASIS SWS TC'
Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments I can't understand what possible relevance there is to the fact that empty fields are not required to be sent. Not that I am arguing in favor of this parameter, I still don't want it. But we are not introducing an explicit form-based model into the protocol are we? Where the processing model dicates that the user inputs the queryn value? The value gets into the URL however the client decides to get it in there, right, and if it wants to put an empty value in it can do so. I think we need to clarify what the model is here that we are talking about. From: LeVan,Ralph [mailto:levan@oclc.org]
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 9:47 AM
To: Hammond, Tony; Denenberg, Ray; Matthew Dovey; OASIS SWS TC
Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments Here’s the W3 page on forms. The “Successful controls” section describes what fields in a form will or will not be sent. Pull down lists without defaults are one example. Unchecked check boxes are another. Fields without values are not required to be returned. http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#h-17.13.2 Ralph From: Hammond, Tony [mailto:t.hammond@nature.com]
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 6:39 AM
To: LeVan,Ralph; Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress; Matthew Dovey; OASIS SWS TC
Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments > Forms do not transmit all their fields.
I'm not sure that's correct. Or has certainly not been my experience anyway. If you had some example that I could check that would be really good. Certainly this changes things so there's a real need to substantiate.
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: LeVan,Ralph [mailto:levan@oclc.org]
Sent: Thu 12/16/2010 7:42 PM
To: Hammond, Tony; Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress; Matthew Dovey; OASIS SWS TC
Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments
The parameters will not be numbered consecutively if they come from a
form. Forms do not transmit all their fields.
Ralph
From: Hammond, Tony [mailto:t.hammond@nature.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 12:09 PM
To: LeVan,Ralph; Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress; Matthew Dovey;
OASIS SWS TC
Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments
No. All the fields are present numbered consecutively in CQL order - not
necessarily form order. The query builder will merely drop clauses (and
fields thereof) with empty terms. It is the field contents that
contribute to the query. The fact that one field was passed over,
another included, is not recorded in the final string which is just a
complete CQL query string.
So, if the fields are iterated over in clause order it does not matter.
They are evaluated in proper sequence. There are no gaps in numbering.
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: LeVan,Ralph [mailto:levan@oclc.org]
Sent: Thu 12/16/2010 3:23 PM
To: Hammond, Tony; Hammond, Tony; Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress;
Matthew Dovey; OASIS SWS TC
Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments
There can be gaps in the numbering. Not all fields present in a form
get submitted.
Ralph
From: Hammond, Tony [mailto:t.hammond@nature.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 6:08 AM
To: Hammond,Tony; Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress; Matthew Dovey;
LeVan,Ralph; OASIS SWS TC
Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments
Hi:
Some further comments.
1. On reflection I guess that "queryn" could be dispensed with as long
as an empty "query" parameter were present in the query to a) signal the
searchRetrieve operation, and b) to receive the assembled query.
2. I had earlier proposed briefer forms of the parameters which would
make the querystring more manageable.
Instead of
"q1.idx", "q1.rel", "q1.trm", "q1.bln"
I proposed
"qi1", "qr1", "qt1", "qb1"
which are cleaner (half the length) and slighly easier to manipulate
(only prefix and index to manage instead of prefix, index, and suffix).
3. Since the query parameters are built with integers they are
arbitrarily extensible (do not require a fixed length form) and sort
order is completely in hands of the form generator. Doesn't matter where
the parameters appear on the form - just their call order. And then they
can be simply iterated over.
4. My preference is still for an explicit count (queryn) as I think this
is easier than trying to compute the number of clauses. And the count is
already known to the form generator since it is adding an index to the
clause parameters. Would almost seem to be a no-brainer.
5. Because of the boolean coupling of search clauses we require a
boolean associated with the search clause which for convenience we take
to be trailing - i.e. operates between this clause and any subsequent
clause. The final boolean in the series will always be omitted.
Tony
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Please note that neither Macmillan Publishers Limited nor any of its agents
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