OASIS Mailing List ArchivesView the OASIS mailing list archive below
or browse/search using MarkMail.

 


Help: OASIS Mailing Lists Help | MarkMail Help

search-ws message

[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]


Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments


Title: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments

There will be no client-side processing, other than typical browser behavior of deciding what fields from the form to send.

 

I don’t think there is any sort of SRU model involved here.  We’ve agreed (I hope) that each queryType can determine what additional parameters it needs in the URL to transmit the query.  For the default queryType of “CQL”, the parameter will be “query”.  My understanding is that the queryType of “cql-form” will have a mandatory parameter of queryN and any number of parms of the form “q*I”, “q*r”, “q*t” and “q*b”, where the star is replaced with a digit less than or equal to the value of queryN.  Tony will formulate some rules at some point describing how that multitude of random q** parms will be reassembled into a valid CQL query.  Along the way, he’ll probably come up with some diagnostics peculiar to cql-form.

 

All of this presupposes that there will be no changes to the response as a result; no <cql-form> element in the <echoedSearchRetrieveRequest> part of the response, for instance.

 

Ralph

 

From: Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress [mailto:rden@loc.gov]
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 4:07 PM
To: Hammond,Tony; LeVan,Ralph; 'Matthew Dovey'; 'OASIS SWS TC'
Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments

 

Once again I'm not following and you'll need to break this down more.   What (hypothetical) client side processing is it that we cannot assume?

 

The model that I now have in my mind, based on all of the discussion so far, is that there is an html form at the server that the client retrieves, the user fills in some fields and others are hidden but the result is a URL that is a conformant SRU url (it will be after we make the necessary changes to the spec). So I not only do not see what client side processing is desired, but what sort of server pre-processing.  What "lies outside and requires a preprocessing step".  What is the "data presentation" issue?

 

--Ray

 

From: Hammond, Tony [mailto:t.hammond@nature.com]
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 2:10 PM
To: LeVan,Ralph; Denenberg, Ray; Matthew Dovey; OASIS SWS TC
Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments

 

 

Yes but let's remember that the browser is still sending that data to an intermediary process if not direct to the SRU service. One simply cannot assume client side processing - attractive as it is. Therefore that input data has got to get channelled through to a server side processing which will either fall within the SRU remit or else lie outside and thus require a preprocessing step. My hope is that we can find ways to accommodate this data presentation within the SRU protocol.

Tony



-----Original Message-----
From: LeVan,Ralph [mailto:levan@oclc.org]
Sent: Fri 12/17/2010 6:58 PM
To: Hammond, Tony; Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress; Matthew Dovey; OASIS SWS TC
Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments

Browsers try to omit anything they can.  Especially in GET requests,
where all the parms have to be stuck in a size-limited URL.



Ralph



From: Hammond, Tony [mailto:t.hammond@nature.com]
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 1:40 PM
To: LeVan,Ralph; Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress; Matthew Dovey;
OASIS SWS TC
Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments





Thanks for that, Ray. Will need to take a closer look.

One thing that does occur immediately is that it should be the
responsibility of the form creator to ensure that the fields are sent.
Optional controls may exhibit different behaviour from fixed controls -
is that true? In the case that fields without values are not sent we
would anyway be eliding them serevr side. But I agree this does change
things form the simpler processing model I had earlier assumed. I wonder
though what the default behaviour of most modern browsers really is.

Tony


-----Original Message-----
From: LeVan,Ralph [mailto:levan@oclc.org]
Sent: Fri 12/17/2010 2:47 PM
To: Hammond, Tony; Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress; Matthew Dovey;
OASIS SWS TC
Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments

Here's the W3 page on forms.  The "Successful controls" section
describes what fields in a form will or will not be sent.  Pull down
lists without defaults are one example.  Unchecked check boxes are
another.  Fields without values are not required to be returned.



http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#h-17.13.2



Ralph



From: Hammond, Tony [mailto:t.hammond@nature.com]
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 6:39 AM
To: LeVan,Ralph; Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress; Matthew Dovey;
OASIS SWS TC
Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments





> Forms do not transmit all their fields.

I'm not sure that's correct. Or has certainly not been my experience
anyway. If you had some example that I could check that would be really
good. Certainly this changes things so there's a real need to
substantiate.

Tony


-----Original Message-----
From: LeVan,Ralph [mailto:levan@oclc.org]
Sent: Thu 12/16/2010 7:42 PM
To: Hammond, Tony; Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress; Matthew Dovey;
OASIS SWS TC
Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments

The parameters will not be numbered consecutively if they come from a
form.  Forms do not transmit all their fields.



Ralph



From: Hammond, Tony [mailto:t.hammond@nature.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 12:09 PM
To: LeVan,Ralph; Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress; Matthew Dovey;
OASIS SWS TC
Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments





No. All the fields are present numbered consecutively in CQL order - not
necessarily form order. The query builder will merely drop clauses (and
fields thereof) with empty terms. It is the field contents that
contribute to the query. The fact that one field was passed over,
another included, is not recorded in the final string which is just a
complete CQL query string.

So, if the fields are iterated over in clause order it does not matter.
They are evaluated in proper sequence. There are no gaps in numbering.

Tony



-----Original Message-----
From: LeVan,Ralph [mailto:levan@oclc.org]
Sent: Thu 12/16/2010 3:23 PM
To: Hammond, Tony; Hammond, Tony; Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress;
Matthew Dovey; OASIS SWS TC
Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments

There can be gaps in the numbering.  Not all fields present in a form
get submitted.



Ralph



From: Hammond, Tony [mailto:t.hammond@nature.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 6:08 AM
To: Hammond,Tony; Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress; Matthew Dovey;
LeVan,Ralph; OASIS SWS TC
Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments



Hi:

Some further comments.

1. On reflection I guess that "queryn" could be dispensed with as long
as an empty "query" parameter were present in the query to a) signal the
searchRetrieve operation, and b) to receive the assembled query.

2. I had earlier proposed briefer forms of the parameters which would
make the querystring more manageable.

Instead of

"q1.idx", "q1.rel", "q1.trm", "q1.bln"

I proposed

"qi1", "qr1", "qt1", "qb1"

which are cleaner (half the length) and slighly easier to manipulate
(only prefix and index to manage instead of prefix, index, and suffix).

3. Since the query parameters are built with integers they are
arbitrarily extensible (do not require a fixed length form) and sort
order is completely in hands of the form generator. Doesn't matter where
the parameters appear on the form - just their call order. And then they
can be simply iterated over.

4. My preference is still for an explicit count (queryn) as I think this
is easier than trying to compute the number of clauses. And the count is
already known to the form generator since it is adding an index to the
clause parameters. Would almost seem to be a no-brainer.

5. Because of the boolean coupling of search clauses we require a
boolean associated with the search clause which for convenience we take
to be trailing - i.e. operates between this clause and any subsequent
clause. The final boolean in the series will always be omitted.

Tony


************************************************************************
********
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail is confidential and should not be used by anyone
who is
not the original intended recipient. If you have received this e-mail in
error
please inform the sender and delete it from your mailbox or any other
storage
mechanism. Neither Macmillan Publishers Limited nor any of its agents
accept
liability for any statements made which are clearly the sender's own and
not
expressly made on behalf of Macmillan Publishers Limited or one of its
agents.
Please note that neither Macmillan Publishers Limited nor any of its
agents
accept any responsibility for viruses that may be contained in this
e-mail or
its attachments and it is your responsibility to scan the e-mail and
attachments (if any). No contracts may be concluded on behalf of
Macmillan
Publishers Limited or its agents by means of e-mail communication.
Macmillan
Publishers Limited Registered in England and Wales with registered
number 785998
Registered Office Brunel Road, Houndmills, Basingstoke RG21 6XS
************************************************************************
********




************************************************************************
********
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail is confidential and should not be used by anyone
who is
not the original intended recipient. If you have received this e-mail in
error
please inform the sender and delete it from your mailbox or any other
storage
mechanism. Neither Macmillan Publishers Limited nor any of its agents
accept
liability for any statements made which are clearly the sender's own and
not
expressly made on behalf of Macmillan Publishers Limited or one of its
agents.
Please note that neither Macmillan Publishers Limited nor any of its
agents
accept any responsibility for viruses that may be contained in this
e-mail or
its attachments and it is your responsibility to scan the e-mail and
attachments (if any). No contracts may be concluded on behalf of
Macmillan
Publishers Limited or its agents by means of e-mail communication.
Macmillan
Publishers Limited Registered in England and Wales with registered
number 785998
Registered Office Brunel Road, Houndmills, Basingstoke RG21 6XS
************************************************************************
********




************************************************************************
********
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail is confidential and should not be used by anyone
who is
not the original intended recipient. If you have received this e-mail in
error
please inform the sender and delete it from your mailbox or any other
storage
mechanism. Neither Macmillan Publishers Limited nor any of its agents
accept
liability for any statements made which are clearly the sender's own and
not
expressly made on behalf of Macmillan Publishers Limited or one of its
agents.
Please note that neither Macmillan Publishers Limited nor any of its
agents
accept any responsibility for viruses that may be contained in this
e-mail or
its attachments and it is your responsibility to scan the e-mail and
attachments (if any). No contracts may be concluded on behalf of
Macmillan
Publishers Limited or its agents by means of e-mail communication.
Macmillan
Publishers Limited Registered in England and Wales with registered
number 785998
Registered Office Brunel Road, Houndmills, Basingstoke RG21 6XS
************************************************************************
********




************************************************************************
******** 
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail is confidential and should not be used by anyone
who is
not the original intended recipient. If you have received this e-mail in
error
please inform the sender and delete it from your mailbox or any other
storage
mechanism. Neither Macmillan Publishers Limited nor any of its agents
accept
liability for any statements made which are clearly the sender's own and
not
expressly made on behalf of Macmillan Publishers Limited or one of its
agents.
Please note that neither Macmillan Publishers Limited nor any of its
agents
accept any responsibility for viruses that may be contained in this
e-mail or
its attachments and it is your responsibility to scan the e-mail and
attachments (if any). No contracts may be concluded on behalf of
Macmillan
Publishers Limited or its agents by means of e-mail communication.
Macmillan
Publishers Limited Registered in England and Wales with registered
number 785998
Registered Office Brunel Road, Houndmills, Basingstoke RG21 6XS 
************************************************************************
********


******************************************************************************** 
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail is confidential and should not be used by anyone who is
not the original intended recipient. If you have received this e-mail in error
please inform the sender and delete it from your mailbox or any other storage
mechanism. Neither Macmillan Publishers Limited nor any of its agents accept
liability for any statements made which are clearly the sender's own and not
expressly made on behalf of Macmillan Publishers Limited or one of its agents.
Please note that neither Macmillan Publishers Limited nor any of its agents
accept any responsibility for viruses that may be contained in this e-mail or
its attachments and it is your responsibility to scan the e-mail and
attachments (if any). No contracts may be concluded on behalf of Macmillan
Publishers Limited or its agents by means of e-mail communication. Macmillan
Publishers Limited Registered in England and Wales with registered number 785998
Registered Office Brunel Road, Houndmills, Basingstoke RG21 6XS 
********************************************************************************



[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]