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Subject: FW: [security-services] Comments onsstc-saml2-attribute-management-protocol-01


Posting on behalf of Phil who is an observer.


Begin forwarded message:

From: Phil Hunt <phil.hunt@oracle.com>
Date: March 3, 2010 10:25:37 AM PST (CA)
To: Scott Cantor <cantor.2@osu.edu>
Cc: "'Nguyenphu, Thinh \(NSN - US/Irving\)'" <thinh.nguyenphu@nsn.com>, "'OASIS SSTC'" <security-services@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject: Re: [security-services] Comments on sstc-saml2-attribute-management-protocol-01

There were a couple of changes we were suggesting in terms of "operations". One was the ability to manipulate subjects and not just attributes.  And the other was to allow for delete and replace operation on attributes.

1. Entity Management.  The requestor should be able to request life-cycle control over an entire entity

<element name="ManageSubjectRequest" type="samlp:ManageSubjectRequestType" />  

    <complexType name="ManageSubjectRequestType">

        <complexContent>

      <extension base="samlp:RequestAbstractType">

     <sequence>   

      <choice>

    <element name="AddSubject" type="samlp:AddSubjectType"/>

    <element name="ModifySubject" type="samlp:ModifySubjectType"/>

      </choice>

     </sequence>

      </extension>

      </complexContent>

    </complexType> 

You will notice that there is no "DeleteSubjectType". Reading the original 2.0 spec, the delete could be handled by ManageNameIDRequest - Terminate. I'm not sure this  is the current intended use. Would it be appropriate to modify the use for this purpose here?

2. Managing attributes would be part of the "ModifySubject" operation.


<complexType name="ChangeValueType">

  <sequence>

  <choice>

  <element ref="saml:Attribute"/>

  <element ref="saml:EncryptedAttribute"/>

  </choice>

  </sequence>

</complexType>

<complexType name="ModifySubjectType">

  <sequence>

  <choice>

   <element ref="saml:NameID"/>

  <element ref="saml:EncryptedID"/>

  </choice>

  <sequence>

  <choice>

  <element name="AddAttributeValue" type="samlp:ChangeValueType"/>

  <element name="DeleteAttributeValue" type="samlp:ChangeValueType"/>

  <element name="ReplaceAttributeValue" type="samlp:ChangeValueType"/>

  </choice>

  </sequence>

  </sequence>

</complexType>

The big change here is that in addition to simply adding an attribute, requestors can request delete or replace operations.

I also agree, there are things to be sorted out such as namespace and signing (what is signed and who is signing). IMHO at minimum the requesting service needs to sign the transaction somehow. In the ideal world, a token representing the requesting end-user would also make sense though it may not be needed in all cases.  The requirements for signing would have to be dictated by the site receiving the modify request (e.g. IDP).

Finally, one other item that will need to be solved.  In the use cases described, it is quite reasonable that the requestor may only be able to make these operations as "suggestions" and that the IDP receiving the operation is not obligated to process them or interpret them exactly as specified. The key requirement as I see it, is to have enough semantics in the SAML request to make it clear to the IDP what the requesting service provider is asking for. More request "context" for the IDP means more data to base a decision on. 

There will also be other metadata requirements such as governance, privacy, and assurance that may have to fit within these requests.

Finally, I have a feeling, there is some information we can learn from SPML2 as applied to messaging that may be of use in these discussions.


On 3-Mar-10, at 7:31 AM, Scott Cantor wrote:

Document
needs XML namespace assigned, it's not in this draft. Suggest
urn:oasis:names:tc:SAML:2.0:profiles:attribute-management

[Thinh] My understanding based on our proposal, we do need to define a
new namespace.  Because, we just extend the existing SAML protocol
schema.

If you meant to say "we do not need...", that would be incorrect. We can't
add to the original namespace if that's what you're suggesting. Doing that
would mean revising the entire SAML standard and publishing a 2.1, because
the original schema artifact is part of the old publication set.

[Thinh} When using AttributeStatements, we see the advantage that an
AttributeStatement can be signed by one issuer, in contrary to an
Attribute.

Statements can't be signed, only assertions. There's no mention of using
assertions here, and the message can be signed anyway.

If a SP sends a signed AttributeStatement to an IdP, then the
IdP is enabled to know who is the issuer of this AttributeStatement. Can
you elaborate on the reasons for your preference?

I don't really like injecting the complexity of assertions into this unless
there's a good reason.

-- Scott



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