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Subject: RE: [soa-blueprints] Primer
OK, now we're getting to some meaty issues :-)
It would seem that a useful pattern would be a long-running business
process, where the "business" could as likely be technical as
commercial. What are the requirements of such a process? What
assumptions do we make about the process? What are the notional
pieces of a solution? How do these pieces notionally work
together? Where are there alternatives? Finally, what combination
of completed standards, specifications within standards committees,
and private specifications will likely enable such a blueprint?
Note, part of the output of this thought process could be feedback to
existing committees on what is needed from their specs or how the
process needs to be curtailed to fit the current and evolving standards.
Ken
At 10:24 AM 11/23/2005, marchadr@wellsfargo.com wrote:
>Jinu these are good points.
>
>Something I would say to this would be that in most implementations
>of SOA there are basic structures that could be followed with the
>variation being the actual business logic.
>
>Even within a certain space there are multiple blueprint needs.
>
>For instance,
>
>- Fulfilling a loan may be a long running process that might take
>into account a workflow with certain security requirements etc...
>
>- While making a wires transfer would have to be highly available
>and have routing based on fraud and security rules without the need
>of long running process
>
>
>To apply them to some of the cases within the soalogic approach you
>could see the following:
>1. Based on the process of developing a product within soalogic they
>need a managed long running process. This pattern without the
>specific business logic could be applied to the loan case. Or could
>even be applied to strategic budget planning, etc...
>
>2. The retail store is using a pos process that needs to be secure
>and have fraud detection for purchases made by the customer this
>could be applied without the specific business logic to a wire transfer case.
>
>The actual blueprints could be extracted for 1 that state:
>- WS-BPEL - manage the long running process
>- Transport types that could apply (HTTP/HTTPS/MQ)
>- WS-Security - for managing who is able to update from a client
>auth perspective
>- WS-Coordination - to coordinate with different SORs
>- WS-Notification - to alert either an operation or customer service
>agent of an issue within the process through an intermediary service
>- WS-Profile - for indentify the service
>- WS-CAF - to provide context around who the requestor is
>- Fault Management - how and what type of responses would happen,
>sending an WSN event?
>- XACML - for determining the rights of the user invoking the service
>- etc...
>
>So what you end up doing is creating a stack of patterns that could
>be applied to a problem area that involves long running operations
>or short fast operations, etc...
>
>Of course the specific technology may not be decided upon within the
>blueprint but the concepts within WS-BPEL will be abstracted with an
>example implementation of how WS-BPEL fulfills the specific request.
>Essentially think of the types of services you have ever created and
>think about a lot of the common problems you had to solve along the
>way to get specific business logic to be invoked within a service
>context. There are a lot of problems that are common across
>implementations such as security, event management, auditing, even
>in some cases accounting to chargeback for a service invocation to a
>specific customer or internal client. Some of these could be in a
>ESB or some could reside with the service and it may be worthwhile
>to come up with a sample deployment for each blueprint that may
>determine the type of system needs associated with the blueprint.
>
>I'll try and come up with an example at the end of the week or next
>week so you don't think I am crazy :)
>
>- Dan
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: jinu.joseph@polaris.co.in [mailto:jinu.joseph@polaris.co.in]
>Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:58 PM
>To: soa-blueprints@lists.oasis-open.org
>Subject: RE: [soa-blueprints] Primer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Hi Folks
>I am just thinking aloud here. I feel that while a blueprint does give a
>kind of basic map while moving into uncharted territory, it still has the
>following limitations
>
>- Blueprints as discussed are limited to a category of contexts. Going by
>the house analogy the blueprint i need for the house will be dependent on
>who I am and where I want to build the house. If I am the President of the
>United States, then I cannot build the house using the same blueprint that
>you and me would use, Similarly if I would use different blueprints to
>build my house in the Sahara Dessert and my house in Antarctica. What I am
>trying to say is that the Blueprint might applicable for a type of system
>and may not be useable for all software systems wanting to go the SOA way.
>The SOA blueprint for the Financial Services Systems used by Banks would be
>different from that used by Corporates for their Inventory Management
>System.
>
>- Trying to make a generalized blueprint will lead to such a high level of
>abstraction that the blueprint itself might not be of much use. Going back
>to the house analogy trying to make a generalized blueprint might lead to
>the blueprint only containing guidelines like, there should be a
>foundation, there should be a ceiling, there should be windows etc...
>
>- What I feel is that we should have SOA blueprints based on software
>segments such BFSI segment, ERP segment, Services like Utilities etc.
>
>What do you say ??
>
>Regards
>Jinu Joseph
>Polaris Software Lab Ltd
>e-mail: jinu.joseph@polaris.co.in
>
>
>
>
> <marchadr@wellsf
>
> argo.com> To:
> <klaskey@mitre.org>
> cc:
> <soa-blueprints@lists.oasis-open.org>, (bcc: jinu.joseph/Polaris)
> 23-11-05 03:53 Subject: RE:
> [soa-blueprints] Primer
> AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>See comments below. Good feedback Ken.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Laskey [mailto:klaskey@mitre.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 12:07 PM
> To: Marchant, Dan R.
> Cc: soa-blueprints@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [soa-blueprints] Primer
>
> At 09:50 AM 11/22/2005, marchadr@wellsfargo.com wrote:
> Ken these are questions that I am sure with be concretely
> established by this tc. Here is my take (keep in mind I am on a
> blackberry so it might be more terse than normal).
>
> 1. A blueprint in my mind is to establish a structure to an
> other wise disorganized approach to developing software. I have
> typically called blueprints a reference architecture (not to be
> confused w/reference model).
>
> 2. Think of the scenario of buying building blueprints from a
> house designer and than having though blueprints tweaked by a
> local architect of the house. Maybe for your requirements you
> need the kitchen closer to the family room or a water closet
> turned into a walk in closet. Whatever the changes the basic
> structure is defined for what you need to accomplish building a
> house with N number of rooms that each have a function.
>
> You might find this analogy interesting:
>
> > Go back to our house analogy. The RM captures concepts related to
> > what makes up a house, e.g. room, window, door. It might include
> > the concepts of food preparation area and personal hygiene area and
>
> > the relationship that there should be physical separation between
> > the two. Note that this provides a very North American/western
> > Europe reference and not necessarily one that covers a tent. So a
> > given RM already provides a perspective.
> >
> > Given RM concepts, various RAs show how these concepts can be
> > arranged in a useful pattern. So RA examples would be (sorry for
> > the American terms) a colonial, a split-level, a rambler, etc. You
> > can play with the pattern but one can say that any given pattern
> > serves a particular set of purposes (e.g. a rambler is on one level
>
> > for those who want/need to avoid stairs).
> >
> > An architecture is then a specific plan to build a house or set of
> > houses. There can still be some variations but you don't do things
> > like moving fireplaces or structural walls, else you have a new
> > architecture.
> [Marchant, Dan R.] Sounds a lot like the movie "Kitchen Stories"
> about the period of time where sweden was conducting studies on the
> usability of a kitchen to identify patterns of usage. In some ways
> the development of a blueprint is similar in nature to the kitchen
> studies in the 50s.
>
> Is a rambler a ranch style house? I agree with the structural
> statement creating a bit of constraints that take care of the
> reduntant nature of developing an SOA. Everyone in the US probably
> has a water closet (bathroom) in the master bedroom a pattern that is
> identified based on the experience of the architects in finding the
> needs of the consumer of the house. Likewise the blueprints can
> evolve by building on the reference model.
>
>
> 3. To establish direction or rudder the ship. You need to
> establish the pie in the sky and a blueprint can help get a
> handle on that pie.
>
> If you have a ship without a rudder, you are likely beyond being
> saved by a blueprint :-)
>
> 4. There is a type of tracability that can be accomplished
> through following a blueprint. Also it may be important to use
> a third-party blueprint to establish a motive for changing the
> way a business does things, not sure if this applicable for
> everyone but there is definely value in having something to
> refer too.
>
> Good points. Now can someone craft those into a paragraph or two
> that any of us can present to a client and they would feel they know
> something they didn't know before?
> [Marchant, Dan R.] Wiki ?
>
> My take is this on the blueprint roadmap so to speak.
>
> 1. Establish a couple different scenarios where services would
> help and how the service would be structured within that
> context and including supporting services.
>
> 2. Take the scenarios and generalize them into patterns with
> some technology choices as and example of implementing pattern.
>
> 3. Establish an overview of how all the supporting services
> could be structure to support the various patterns.
>
> It would essentially turn into a type of framework, a service
> could follow and establish the need for supporting services in
> a formal way.
>
> Step 2 after you define a blueprint is to lay out how you would
> create one. Your roadmap looks like a good initial approach, both
> for motivating a blueprint and showing how one blueprint
> can/should/might support more than one scenario.
>
> I could see it on the same lines of developing anything spring
> or a portal. You have a set of facilities that are applicable
> for certain scenarios that than could be implemented of
> configured appropriately.
>
> The great unknown being what business logic is performed but
> most of it could be generalized into some type of pattern. For
> example, transaction based, inquiry based, aggregation, or even
> everyone's favorite semantic service.
>
> Thoughts from the group?
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Laskey <klaskey@mitre.org>
> To: Marchant, Dan R. <marchadr@imc.wellsfargo.com>
> CC: soa-blueprints@lists.oasis-open.org
> <soa-blueprints@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Sent: Mon Nov 21 22:42:48 2005
> Subject: Re: [soa-blueprints] Primer
>
> I have not been following the email carefully enough, so
> forgive me if this has already been established but
>
> 1. Exactly what is a blueprint?
> 2. What purpose does it serve?
> 3. Why should I think one will be generally applicable?
> 4. Why do I care?
>
> Do we expect that a blueprint will be a sort of turnkey
> formula? How do we determine the limits of applicability for a
> given blueprint? Are there underlying assumptions that all
> blueprints have in common, or is each blueprint fundamentally
> different (a very possible construction), or are there
> fundamental groupings with multiple non-redundant examples in
> each group?
>
> I think agreeing on a clear strawman definition of blueprint is
> essential. It can be modified as we learn more but we need a
> clear starting point.
>
> Ken
>
> On Nov 21, 2005, at 9:12 PM, <marchadr@wellsfargo.com>
> <marchadr@wellsfargo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> One question to pose to the group is maybe the case study
> actually becomes a type of primer for the blueprints once the
> blueprints are defined.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Ken Laskey
> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934
> 7515 Colshire Drive fax:
> 703-983-1379
> McLean VA 22102-7508
>
>
> --
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> / Ken Laskey
> \
> | MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 |
> | 7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379
> |
> \ McLean VA 22102-7508
> /
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>
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