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Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] point of action
I do not think that this definition is one of action but one of decision. You can decide not to act, or to act. But I believe that you need to at least push a button in order to act. Frank On Aug 17, 2006, at 6:18 AM, Rex Brooks wrote: > I hope no one is surprised if I quibble with this particular > definition, which comes close, in my opinion, but fall just short > of the mark. I take exception with the choice of using the concept > of force per se, though I do understand and agree with the > requirement of making "action" transitive. I would apply a small > bit of mental jiu jitsu on this definition, thus: > > Action: the application of 'intent' to achieve an effect by an > agent on an object. > > Thus, the application of "intent" applies equally well to choosing > to do "nothing" and allow inertia/momentum to achieve an effect, or > to require action by some other agent to achieve, prevent or allow > an effect. In the study of heuristics, one of the least well > explored results is exactly this, the intentional refusal to act > per se, which, I contend, constitutes a decision, which is, in and > of itself, an action at a choice-point branching of a decision-tree. > > BTW, this answers the last question below: Yes! and full > responsibility or culpability applies. Needless to say, this is > utterly critical to security. Choose not to apply a patch in time, > and you are caught holding the hot potato if bad things happen to > good systems. > > Cheers, > Rex > > > > At 7:55 AM -0400 8/17/06, Ken Laskey wrote: >> Some comments from Frank that didn't get back to the list: >> >> Ken: >> The POA *is* the action as it is applied. >> If the service is the glove, the POA is the iron fist:) >> >> Different people have different definitions of action, (try >> define:action in google). None of these definitions is all that >> satisfactory to me. >> My definition is adapted from John Sowa: >> >> Action: the application of force by an agent on an object with the >> intention of achieving an effect. >> >> I.e., its a kind of event. The POA is a characterization of that >> event. (One reason I like this definition is that is includes all >> human actions but excludes rocks rolling down the hill hitting >> other rocks.) >> >> The service interface is the characterization of what it means to >> perform an action. It is not the action itself though. >> >> Hope that this throws a little light on the matter. >> Frank >> >> Per Danny's response, I think he caught my question well with the >> final line of his response below: >> >>> One question >>> we can ask is can we identify a point of action >>> meaningful to the reference architecture that would >>> not have a service interface? >>> >> >> Ken >> >> >> >> On Aug 17, 2006, at 1:55 AM, Danny Thornton wrote: >> >>> To draw another analogy for the point of action, I >>> know your mind will be the point of action for >>> processing this e-mail as you read the e-mail. The >>> e-mail address and the english language is like a >>> service interface. >>> >>> The SOA has many points of action, each point of >>> action potentially affecting many other points of >>> action. We can identify points of action in a SOA >>> relevant to the reference architecture. One question >>> we can ask is can we identify a point of action >>> meaningful to the reference architecture that would >>> not have a service interface? >>> >>> Danny >>> >>> >>> --- Ken Laskey <<mailto:klaskey@mitre.org>klaskey@mitre.org> wrote: >>> >>>> The following are from my notes at the ftf >>>> >>>> Point of Action (poa) >>>> >>>> - Frank: anchoring mechanism for numerous >>>> things, e.g. policy >>>> enforcement, evaluating needs & capabilities >>>> >>>> - Ken: how does poa relate to service >>>> interface? Frank: >>>> service interface includes actions you can perform; >>>> each instance of >>>> use consists of performing action; actual action is >>>> poa; interface >>>> vs. poa is class vs. instance relationship; the >>>> physical action is >>>> the point of action >>>> >>>> - [Ken] Given a policy is a desire of one >>>> participant and an >>>> agreement as part of the execution context for >>>> participants to abide >>>> by that policy (i.e. the other participant(s) agree >>>> to make that >>>> policy theirs), the policy enforcement point becomes >>>> the point of >>>> action for enforcing the agreed-upon policy. >>>> >>>> - [Frank alternative] A policy is a constraint >>>> that represents >>>> the desire of a participant. A contract is a >>>> constraint that >>>> represents the agreed desires of two or more >>>> participants. A [policy] >>>> enforcement point is the point of action for >>>> enforcing constraints >>>> that represent either policies or contracts. >>>> >>>> >>>> I've reread this and am still having problems >>>> differentiating between >>>> service interface and point of action. It appears >>>> that poa is more >>>> general because it is the location to which a user >>>> would send a >>>> command for action. If the receiver is a service, >>>> then the poa would >>>> seem to be the service interface. In the policy >>>> example, if the >>>> enforcement mechanism is accessed through a service, >>>> the PEP could be >>>> said to have a service interface. >>>> >>>> I still seem to be missing something. >>>> >>>> Ken >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Ken Laskey >>>> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 >>>> 7515 Colshire Drive fax: >>>> 703-983-1379 >>>> McLean VA 22102-7508 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> __________________________________________________ >>> Do You Yahoo!? >>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >>> <http://mail.yahoo.com>http://mail.yahoo.com >>> >> >> --- >> Ken Laskey >> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 >> 7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379 >> McLean VA 22102-7508 > > > -- > Rex Brooks > President, CEO > Starbourne Communications Design > GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison > Berkeley, CA 94702 > Tel: 510-849-2309
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