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Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] random question


While I agree completely that data is *always* involved in services,  
I do not think that that is the key aspect of SOA.
I would assert that *action* is of the essence in SOA, not *data*.

Contrast this with the normal Web architecture. In that model,  
information is of the essence, and action is a side-effect.

Frank


On Aug 25, 2006, at 8:49 AM, Duane Nickull wrote:

> I feel a strong sense that the old “is null a value” question is  
> coming on ;-)
>
> I think that all services must utilize data at some juncture of the  
> invocation lifecycle.  Otherwise, why would anyone build an interface?
>
> D
>
>
>
> On 8/25/06 1:08 AM, "Jones, Steve G" <steve.g.jones@capgemini.com>  
> wrote:
>
>> If we are being random, a NOP service wouldn’t use data.  But I’m  
>> not quite sure what the real world effect would be either.  But  
>> I’m not sure that we need to worry about service provider types  
>> either because the consumer doesn’t care as long as it meets the  
>> contract.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> From: Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com]
>> Sent: 24 August 2006 17:26
>> To: Chiusano Joseph; Ken Laskey
>> Cc: Michael Stiefel; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] random question
>>
>> Is there any service that does not use data?
>>
>> D
>>
>>
>> On 8/24/06 6:29 AM, "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>  
>> wrote:
>> Not types of service providers; service providers that provide  
>> certain types of services (e.g. data service provider = service  
>> provider of data services).
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> Joseph Chiusano
>> Associate
>> Booz Allen Hamilton
>>
>> 700 13th St. NW, Suite 1100
>> Washington, DC 20005
>> O: 202-508-6514
>> C: 202-251-0731
>> Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com <blocked::http:// 
>> www.boozallen.com/> <http://www.boozallen.com/%3e>
>>
>>
>> From: Ken Laskey [mailto:klaskey@mitre.org]  
>> <mailto:klaskey@mitre.org%5d>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 8:49 AM
>> To: Chiusano Joseph
>> Cc: Michael Stiefel; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] random question
>>
>> Joe,
>>
>> But I'm not sure "types" of service providers is relevant.  I look  
>> at a service description, decide if the real world effects are  
>> what I want (and whether the rest of the execution context stuff  
>> can be aligned), and then I proceed with the interaction.  If I  
>> ask for information, I don't know (unless I have a business reason  
>> for this to be part of my rationale for which service to use) if  
>> it is "data" from a database, results from a simulation, or  
>> Mechanical Turk.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> On Aug 24, 2006, at 6:33 AM, Chiusano Joseph wrote:
>>
>>
>> I think it's a question of  service providers, but more  
>> specifically of what *types* of services. So there  can be data  
>> service providers, perhaps process service providers (e.g.  BPEL- 
>> based processes), and perhaps even application service providers  
>> in a  different sense than the traditional ASP (perhaps service- 
>> based  applications).
>>
>>
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Ken Laskey [mailto:klaskey@mitre.org]  
>> <mailto:klaskey@mitre.org%5d>
>> Sent:  Wed 8/23/2006 10:19 PM
>> To: Michael Stiefel
>> Cc: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
>> Subject:  Re: [soa-rm-ra] random question
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael,
>>
>>
>>
>> My question is whether there are providers in the SOA sense for  
>> something  other than services.  For example, one could say there  
>> are data providers  but wouldn't they have their data sources  
>> accessed using services?  Does  that apply to all providing  
>> stakeholders?
>>
>>
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 23, 2006, at 6:58 PM, Michael Stiefel wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Aren't users of the services stakeholders?
>>
>>
>>
>> Aren't manufacturers of equipment  stakeholders?
>>
>>
>>
>> Is the government that collects a tax or regulates  a stakeholder?
>>
>>
>>
>> Aren't the "victims" we discussed at the F2F  stakeholders as well?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 05:57 PM 8/23/2006, Ken Laskey wrote:
>>
>>
>> Can we have stakeholders who are providers or  maintainers of  
>> something other than services?  Or, do we assume by the nature  of  
>> SOA that if you provide something other than a service, that  
>> something  is a capability that must have a service access, so you  
>> always end up a  service provider?
>>
>>
>>
>> Ken
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ------------
>>
>>   /    Ken  
>> Laskey                                                                
>>     \
>>
>>  |    MITRE Corporation, M/S  H305    phone:  703-983-7934   |
>>
>>  |    7515 Colshire Drive                     fax:       
>> 703-983-1379   |
>>
>>   \    McLean VA  
>> 22102-7508                                                /
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> -------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Ken Laskey
>>
>> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305     phone:   703-983-7934
>>
>> 7515 Colshire Drive                         fax:         703-983-1379
>>
>> McLean VA 22102-7508
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Ken Laskey
>> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305     phone:  703-983-7934
>> 7515 Colshire Drive                        fax:        703-983-1379
>> McLean VA 22102-7508
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This message contains information that may be privileged or  
>> confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is  
>> intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are  
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>>
>



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