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Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] reaching closure on Action

More good observations and questions.  Some thoughts inline.

On Jun 9, 2008, at 5:27 PM, Jeffrey A. Estefan wrote:

I think it's time to return to basics and my belief is that starts with clear clarification of Real World Effect (RWE).
See pages 18-19 of the RM.  Also see the attached subset of slides from Ken's RM tutorial.
Clearly, RWE is related to the notion of Shared State and Interaction.  This point (at least Shared State) seems to have been dropped in the RA.
Also, we need to be clear about RWE.  Does a consumer using a proxy agent to send a message to a Service requesting invocation of a permissible action failing due to a network outage count as a RWE since the Service never got to request message to carry out its action? 

This does not count as RWE because it was the result of interacting with the infrastructure, not with the service.  For most of what we are doing, the infrastructure is assumed;  this brings u the question of hen we have to explicitly address the infrastructure and I think it probably strongly correlates with when we need to explicitly talk about agents.

In my email a few minutes ago, I would say the consumer applied intent but there was no communicative action with the service.

Ambiguities such as this need to get resolved.
For SOA-based systems, to me, only joint action is interesting.  Who cares about separate action?  Heck, anything that some entity does could be characterized as an action.  That would leave us with unlimited permutations.

But if joint action is merely speaking and listening with no connection to resulting "activity" leading to RWE, then I'd ask the same question -- who cares?

Enough rambling for now.
 - JAE
 <SOA-RM TEM (PR2)-RWE.ppt>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Ken Laskey

MITRE Corporation, M/S H305     phone:  703-983-7934

7515 Colshire Drive                        fax:        703-983-1379

McLean VA 22102-7508

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