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Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] RE: [SPAM] Re: [soa-rm-ra] RE: [offlist] PublicReview of Reference Ontology for Semantic SOA v1.0


This Reference Ontology for Semantic SOA v1.0 might need only one small editing (for the lame duck): replace the word 'SOA' with 'Web Services' and let it go as "Reference Ontology for Semantic Web Services v1.0" or even simpler - "Reference Ontology for Semantic Web v1.0"

If we can convince them to change the title with no critics of the content (and we can do it based on the differences in the definitions of SOA and Service), we may be in the better position for taking/referencing some useful pieces about semantics and ontology from them for the RA of SOA.

- Michael



> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter F Brown" <peter@pensive.eu>
> To: "Rex Brooks" <rexb@starbourne.com>, "Ken Laskey" <klaskey@mitre.org>, mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org
> Cc: "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>, "SOA  RA" <soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Subject: [soa-rm-ra] RE: [SPAM]  Re: [soa-rm-ra] RE: [offlist] Public Review of Reference Ontology for Semantic SOA v1.0
> Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:01:46 +0100
> 
> 
> If it hobbles like a lame duck, squeaks like a lame duck, it 
> doesn't matter how many peacock feathers you add, it is still a 
> lame duck...
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 5:38 PM
> To: Ken Laskey; mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org
> Cc: Peter F Brown; 'Mike Poulin'; 'SOA RA'
> Subject: [SPAM] Re: [soa-rm-ra] RE: [offlist] Public Review of 
> Reference Ontology for Semantic SOA v1.0
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 
> I've already said that I think WSML less than
> optimal, but as I read the spec, it should be
> possible to construct an OWL representation, and
> perhaps we should suggest such in addition to the
> WSML representation, as opposed to the the clumsy
> disclaimer language about it.
> 
> Cheers,
> Rex
> 
> At 10:50 AM -0500 12/12/08, Ken Laskey wrote:
> > Let me repeat that the OASIS comment procedure is abysmal and 
> > goes too far into turning any TC into a private club with an 
> > OASIS letterhead.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > On Dec 12, 2008, at 10:03 AM, Mary McRae wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >>  FYI, unless one is a *member* of the TC, the *only* way you can 
> >> respond is via the comment list, which requires subscription and 
> >> agreement of the IPR feedback license. That said, the TC could 
> >> reach out to the Semantic Execution TC and request to establish 
> >> a liaison relationship (a member of this TC would join the other 
> >> and hopefully vice versa).
> >>
> >> Mary
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Peter F Brown [mailto:peter@pensive.eu]
> >>> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 9:57 AM
> >>> To: Mike Poulin
> >>> Cc: SOA RA
> >>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] RE: [offlist] Public Review of Reference
> >>> Ontology for Semantic SOA v1.0
> >>>
> >>> Indeed, how to respond is the main question
> >>>
> >>> Tactically, I think replying just in the name of the SAO-RM/RA TC will
> >>> put is a pigeon-hole of whining "they would say that wouldn't they"
> >>> even if the concerns we raise are legit.
> >>>
> >>> I think a few well aimed kicks from some of the bigger kickers would
> >>> have more impact - for the record, our company will lodge a negative
> >>> vote with comments - the schema being in WSML and the statement in the
> >>> proposed spec. that "only WSML" can deliver the "really machine
> >>> processable" semantic SOA, must be challenged - it's both wrong and,
> >>> even if cortrest, would smack of vendor lock-in if promoted by anyone
> >>> other than a research institute (albeit a very "profitable" one)
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>>
> >>> Peter
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com]
> >>> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 2:50 PM
> >>> To: SOA RA
> >>> Subject: [SPAM] Re: [soa-rm-ra] RE: [offlist] Public Review of
> >>> Reference Ontology for Semantic SOA v1.0
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> You know that I do agree with Peter.
> >>>
> >>> The question is: how we plan to respond - as a STC or individually?
> >>>
> >>> - Michael
> >>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Peter F Brown" <peter@pensive.eu>
> >>>> To: "Duane Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>, "Mike Poulin"
> >>> <mpoulin@usa.com>, "Jeffrey A. Estefan"
> >>> <jeffrey.a.estefan@jpl.nasa.gov>
> >>>> Cc: "SOA RA" <soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org>
> >>>> Subject: [soa-rm-ra] RE: [offlist] Public Review of Reference
> >>> Ontology for Semantic SOA v1.0
> >>>> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 00:07:25 +0100
> >>>>
> >>>> I'll give my ¤0.02, FWIW
> >>>> The institute in Innsbruck has had its own axe to grind for several
> >>>> years and is trying to corner a market for their brand of semantic
> >>>> web technologies based on some "standards" they have developed
> >>>> around WSMO: "not invented here" is not a mantra with these guys,
> >>>> it's party policy - FUD and marginalise anything else. You'll
> >>>> notice that the schema they submit is in WSML, not any "open"
> >>>> schema language - probably grounds alone for voting the proposal
> >>>> down.
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike is right that they are WS-only but, in their opinion "pure" WS
> >>>> (their brand of course).
> >>>>
> >>>> They don't even see the irony in naming the standard "semantic SOA"
> >>>> - WTF is SOA if it isn't about semantics and semantic engagement?
> >>>> D'oh....
> >>>>
> >>>> I would have no qualms about the SOA RM or RA TCs coming out
> >>>> publicly against endorsement - we did a lot of work to cut the crap
> >>>> and hype around "SOA == WS" and we shouldn't remain silent if that
> >>>> is being undermined by a half-witted effort that, even if not taken
> >>>> seriously, will just add more FUD...
> >>>>
> >>>> Peter
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com]
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:05 PM
> >>>> To: Mike Poulin; Jeffrey A. Estefan; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>> Subject: [SPAM] Re: [soa-rm-ra] FW: [members] Public Review of
> >>>> Reference Ontology for Semantic SOA v1.0
> >>>>
> >>>> One of their guys came to an architects summit in Zurich.  He was
> >>>> really old school and did not seem to understand anything newer
> >>>> than Pascal.
> >>>>
> >>>> D
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 10/12/08 3:08 AM, "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Terrible!
> >>>>
> >>>> There are none SOA expert in the Committee; there is no
> >>>> understanding of SOA Service based on SOA RM/RA - only Web
> >>>> Services; SOA is interpreted as "a computer architecture that
> >>>> allows for scalable and controlled Enterprise Application
> >>>> Integration solutions" which has as little to do with RM/RA as a
> >>>> brook with an ocean.
> >>>>
> >>>> Were anybody of you contacted by Semantic Technology Institute
> >>>> Innsbruck ever? Do they know about our existence?
> >>>>
> >>>> I can go and try to find some rational seeds in the draft but its
> >>>> basis is fundamentally wrong to my opinion, it is not a SOA
> >>>> semantics but Web Service and Web Semantics. Any considerations?
> >>>>
> >>>> - Michael
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "Estefan, Jeff A" <jeffrey.a.estefan@jpl.nasa.gov>
> >>>>> To: "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org" <soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-
> >>> open.org>
> >>>>> Subject: [soa-rm-ra] FW: [members] Public Review of Reference
> >>>>> Ontology for Semantic SOA v1.0
> >>>>> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 22:13:46 -0800
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How 'bout that folks!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Now your chance to weigh in on the public review.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  - jae
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: Mary McRae [mailto:marypmcrae@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Mary
> >>> McRae
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:54 PM
> >>>>> To: members@lists.oasis-open.org; tc-announce@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>> Subject: [members] Public Review of Reference Ontology for Semantic
> >>> SOA v1.0
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To OASIS members, Public Announce Lists:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The OASIS Semantic Execution Environment TC has recently approved
> >>> the
> >>>>> following specification as a Committee Draft and approved the
> >>> package for
> >>>>> public review:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Reference Ontology for Semantic Service Oriented Architectures
> >>> Version 1.0
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The public review starts today, 9 December 2008, and ends 7
> >>> February 2009.
> >>>>> This is an open invitation to comment. We strongly encourage
> >>> feedback from
> >>>>> potential users, developers and others, whether OASIS members or
> >>> not, for
> >>>>> the sake of improving the interoperability and quality of OASIS
> >>> work. Please
> >>>>> feel free to distribute this announcement within your organization
> >>> and to
> >>>>> other appropriate mail lists.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> More non-normative information about the specification and the
> >>> technical
> >>>>> committee may be found at the public home page of the TC at
> >>>>> http://www.oasis-
> >>> open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=semantic-ex.
> >>>>> Comments may be submitted to the TC by any person through the use
> >>> of the
> >>>>> OASIS TC Comment Facility which can be located via the button
> >>> marked "Send A
> >>>>> Comment" at the top of that page, or directly at
> >>>>> http://www.oasis-
> >>> open.org/committees/comments/index.php?wg_abbrev=semantic-e
> >>>>> x.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Submitted comments (for this work as well as other works of that
> >>> TC) are
> >>>>> publicly archived and can be viewed at
> >>>>> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/semantic-ex-comment/. All
> >>> comments
> >>>>> submitted to OASIS are subject to the OASIS Feedback License, which
> >>> ensures
> >>>>> that the feedback you provide carries the same obligations at least
> >>> as the
> >>>>> obligations of the TC members.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The specification document and related files are available here:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Editable Source:
> >>>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/semantic-ex/ro-soa/v1.0/pr01/see-rosoa-
> >>> v1.0-pr01.
> >>>>> doc
> >>>>>
> >>>>> PDF:
> >>>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/semantic-ex/ro-soa/v1.0/pr01/see-rosoa-
> >>> v1.0-pr01.
> >>>>> pdf
> >>>>>
> >>>>> HTML:
> >>>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/semantic-ex/ro-soa/v1.0/pr01/see-rosoa-
> >>> v1.0-pr01.
> >>>>> html
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Schema:
> >>>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/semantic-ex/ro-soa/v1.0/pr01/see-rosoa-
> >>> v1.0.wsml
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> OASIS and the Semantic Execution Environment TC welcome your
> >>> comments.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> Mary P McRae
> >>>>> Director, Technical Committee Administration
> >>>>> OASIS: Advancing open standards for the information society
> >>>>> email: mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org
> >>>>> web: www.oasis-open.org
> >>>>> phone: 1.603.232.9090
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>
> >>
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> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Ken Laskey
> > MITRE Corporation, M/S H305      phone: 703-983-7934
> > 7515 Colshire Drive                         fax:       703-983-1379
> > McLean VA 22102-7508
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> 
> 
> --
> Rex Brooks
> President, CEO
> Starbourne Communications Design
> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
> Berkeley, CA 94702
> Tel: 510-898-0670
> 
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