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Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] RE: [offlist] Public Review of Reference Ontologyfor Semantic SOA v1.0
Cool, Ken, I'd be happy to co-sign that. Cheers, Rex At 2:54 PM -0500 12/12/08, Ken Laskey wrote: >In the comments I'm putting together, I say that exactly. > >Ken > >On Dec 12, 2008, at 11:38 AM, Rex Brooks wrote: > >>Hi Folks, >> >>I've already said that I think WSML less than >>optimal, but as I read the spec, it should be >>possible to construct an OWL representation, and >>perhaps we should suggest such in addition to the >>WSML representation, as opposed to the the clumsy >>disclaimer language about it. >> >>Cheers, >>Rex >> >>At 10:50 AM -0500 12/12/08, Ken Laskey wrote: >>>Let me repeat that the OASIS comment procedure >>>is abysmal and goes too far into turning any TC >>>into a private club with an OASIS letterhead. >>> >>>Ken >>> >>>On Dec 12, 2008, at 10:03 AM, Mary McRae wrote: >>> >>>>Hi all, >>>> >>>>FYI, unless one is a *member* of the TC, the >>>>*only* way you can respond is via the comment >>>>list, which requires subscription and agreement >>>>of the IPR feedback license. That said, the TC >>>>could reach out to the Semantic Execution TC >>>>and request to establish a liaison relationship >>>>(a member of this TC would join the other and >>>>hopefully vice versa). >>>> >>>>Mary >>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: Peter F Brown [mailto:peter@pensive.eu] >>>>>Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 9:57 AM >>>>>To: Mike Poulin >>>>>Cc: SOA RA >>>>>Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] RE: [offlist] Public Review of Reference >>>>>Ontology for Semantic SOA v1.0 >>>>> >>>>>Indeed, how to respond is the main question >>>>> >>>>>Tactically, I think replying just in the name of the SAO-RM/RA TC will >>>>>put is a pigeon-hole of whining "they would say that wouldn't they" >>>>>even if the concerns we raise are legit. >>>>> >>>>>I think a few well aimed kicks from some of the bigger kickers would >>>>>have more impact - for the record, our company will lodge a negative >>>>>vote with comments - the schema being in WSML and the statement in the >>>>>proposed spec. that "only WSML" can deliver the "really machine >>>>>processable" semantic SOA, must be challenged - it's both wrong and, >>>>>even if cortrest, would smack of vendor lock-in if promoted by anyone >>>>>other than a research institute (albeit a very "profitable" one) >>>>> >>>>>Best regards, >>>>> >>>>>Peter >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] >>>>>Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 2:50 PM >>>>>To: SOA RA >>>>>Subject: [SPAM] Re: [soa-rm-ra] RE: [offlist] Public Review of >>>>>Reference Ontology for Semantic SOA v1.0 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>You know that I do agree with Peter. >>>>> >>>>>The question is: how we plan to respond - as a STC or individually? >>>>> >>>>>- Michael >>>>> >>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Peter F Brown" <peter@pensive.eu> >>>>>>To: "Duane Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>, "Mike Poulin" >>>>><mpoulin@usa.com>, "Jeffrey A. Estefan" >>>>><jeffrey.a.estefan@jpl.nasa.gov> >>>>>>Cc: "SOA RA" <soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> >>>>>>Subject: [soa-rm-ra] RE: [offlist] Public Review of Reference >>>>>Ontology for Semantic SOA v1.0 >>>>>>Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 00:07:25 +0100 >>>>>> >>>>>>I'll give my ¤0.02, FWIW >>>>>>The institute in Innsbruck has had its own axe to grind for several >>>>>>years and is trying to corner a market for their brand of semantic >>>>>>web technologies based on some "standards" they have developed >>>>>>around WSMO: "not invented here" is not a mantra with these guys, >>>>>>it's party policy - FUD and marginalise anything else. You'll >>>>>>notice that the schema they submit is in WSML, not any "open" >>>>>>schema language - probably grounds alone for voting the proposal >>>>>>down. >>>>>> >>>>>>Mike is right that they are WS-only but, in their opinion "pure" WS >>>>>>(their brand of course). >>>>>> >>>>>>They don't even see the irony in naming the standard "semantic SOA" >>>>>>- WTF is SOA if it isn't about semantics and semantic engagement? >>>>>>D'oh.... >>>>>> >>>>>>I would have no qualms about the SOA RM or RA TCs coming out >>>>>>publicly against endorsement - we did a lot of work to cut the crap >>>>>>and hype around "SOA == WS" and we shouldn't remain silent if that >>>>>>is being undermined by a half-witted effort that, even if not taken >>>>>>seriously, will just add more FUD... >>>>>> >>>>>>Peter >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>From: Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com] >>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 9:05 PM >>>>>>To: Mike Poulin; Jeffrey A. Estefan; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >>>>>>Subject: [SPAM] Re: [soa-rm-ra] FW: [members] Public Review of >>>>>>Reference Ontology for Semantic SOA v1.0 >>>>>> >>>>>>One of their guys came to an architects summit in Zurich. He was >>>>>>really old school and did not seem to understand anything newer >>>>>>than Pascal. >>>>>> >>>>>>D >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>On 10/12/08 3:08 AM, "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>Terrible! >>>>>> >>>>>>There are none SOA expert in the Committee; there is no >>>>>>understanding of SOA Service based on SOA RM/RA - only Web >>>>>>Services; SOA is interpreted as "a computer architecture that >>>>>>allows for scalable and controlled Enterprise Application >>>>>>Integration solutions" which has as little to do with RM/RA as a >>>>>>brook with an ocean. >>>>>> >>>>>>Were anybody of you contacted by Semantic Technology Institute >>>>>>Innsbruck ever? Do they know about our existence? >>>>>> >>>>>>I can go and try to find some rational seeds in the draft but its >>>>>>basis is fundamentally wrong to my opinion, it is not a SOA >>>>>>semantics but Web Service and Web Semantics. Any considerations? >>>>>> >>>>>>- Michael >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "Estefan, Jeff A" <jeffrey.a.estefan@jpl.nasa.gov> >>>>>>>To: "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org" <soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis- >>>>>open.org> >>>>>>>Subject: [soa-rm-ra] FW: [members] Public Review of Reference >>>>>>>Ontology for Semantic SOA v1.0 >>>>>>>Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 22:13:46 -0800 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>How 'bout that folks! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Now your chance to weigh in on the public review. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Cheers... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>- jae >>>>>>> >>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>From: Mary McRae [mailto:marypmcrae@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Mary >>>>>McRae >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 6:54 PM >>>>>>>To: members@lists.oasis-open.org; tc-announce@lists.oasis-open.org >>>>>>>Subject: [members] Public Review of Reference Ontology for Semantic >>>>>SOA v1.0 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>To OASIS members, Public Announce Lists: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The OASIS Semantic Execution Environment TC has recently approved >>>>>the >>>>>>>following specification as a Committee Draft and approved the >>>>>package for >>>>>>>public review: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Reference Ontology for Semantic Service Oriented Architectures >>>>>Version 1.0 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The public review starts today, 9 December 2008, and ends 7 >>>>>February 2009. >>>>>>>This is an open invitation to comment. We strongly encourage >>>>>feedback from >>>>>>>potential users, developers and others, whether OASIS members or >>>>>not, for >>>>>>>the sake of improving the interoperability and quality of OASIS >>>>>work. Please >>>>>>>feel free to distribute this announcement within your organization >>>>>and to >>>>>>>other appropriate mail lists. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>More non-normative information about the specification and the >>>>>technical >>>>>>>committee may be found at the public home page of the TC at >>>>>>>http://www.oasis- >>>>>open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=semantic-ex. >>>>>>>Comments may be submitted to the TC by any person through the use >>>>>of the >>>>>>>OASIS TC Comment Facility which can be located via the button >>>>>marked "Send A >>>>>>>Comment" at the top of that page, or directly at >>>>>>>http://www.oasis- >>>>>open.org/committees/comments/index.php?wg_abbrev=semantic-e >>>>>>>x. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Submitted comments (for this work as well as other works of that >>>>>TC) are >>>>>>>publicly archived and can be viewed at >>>>>>>http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/semantic-ex-comment/. All >>>>>comments >>>>>>>submitted to OASIS are subject to the OASIS Feedback License, which >>>>>ensures >>>>>>>that the feedback you provide carries the same obligations at least >>>>>as the >>>>>>>obligations of the TC members. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The specification document and related files are available here: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Editable Source: >>>>>>>http://docs.oasis-open.org/semantic-ex/ro-soa/v1.0/pr01/see-rosoa- >>>>>v1.0-pr01. >>>>>>>doc >>>>>>> >>>>>>>PDF: >>>>>>>http://docs.oasis-open.org/semantic-ex/ro-soa/v1.0/pr01/see-rosoa- >>>>>v1.0-pr01. >>>>>>>pdf >>>>>>> >>>>>>>HTML: >>>>>>>http://docs.oasis-open.org/semantic-ex/ro-soa/v1.0/pr01/see-rosoa- >>>>>v1.0-pr01. >>>>>>>html >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Schema: >>>>>>>http://docs.oasis-open.org/semantic-ex/ro-soa/v1.0/pr01/see-rosoa- >>>>>v1.0.wsml >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>OASIS and the Semantic Execution Environment TC welcome your >>>>>comments. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>--------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>Mary P McRae >>>>>>>Director, Technical Committee Administration >>>>>>>OASIS: Advancing open standards for the information society >>>>>>>email: mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org >>>>>>>web: www.oasis-open.org >>>>>>>phone: 1.603.232.9090 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>-- >>>>>>> >>>>>>>This email list is used solely by OASIS for official consortium >>>>>>>communications. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Opt-out requests may be sent to member-services@oasis-open.org, >>>>>>>however, all members are strongly encouraged to maintain a >>>>>>>subscription to this list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>-- >>>>>>>To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC >>>>>that >>>>>>>generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: >>>>>>>https://www.oasis- >>>>>open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>-- >>>>>>Be Yourself @ mail.com! >>>>>>Choose From 200+ Email Addresses >>>>>>Get a Free Account at www.mail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >>>>>>generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: >>>>>>https://www.oasis- >>>>>open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>-- >>>>>> >>>>>********************************************************************** >>>>>>Senior Technical Evangelist - Adobe Systems, Inc. >>>>>>Duane's World TV Show - http://tv.adobe.com/#pg+1537 >>>>>>Blog - http://technoracle.blogspot.com >>>>>>I am a Twit - http://twitter.com/duanechaos >>>>>>Community Music - http://www.mix2r.com >>>>>>My Band - http://www.myspace.com/22ndcentury >>>>>> >>>>>********************************************************************** >>>>>> >>>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >>>>>>generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: >>>>>>https://www.oasis- >>>>>open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>>Be Yourself @ mail.com! >>>>>Choose From 200+ Email Addresses >>>>>Get a Free Account at www.mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >>>>>generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: >>>>>https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >>>>generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: >>>>https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >>>> >>> >>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>Ken Laskey >>>MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 >>>7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379 >>>McLean VA 22102-7508 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >>>generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: >>>https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >> >> >>-- >>Rex Brooks >>President, CEO >>Starbourne Communications Design >>GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison >>Berkeley, CA 94702 >>Tel: 510-898-0670 > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ken Laskey >MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 >7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379 >McLean VA 22102-7508 -- Rex Brooks President, CEO Starbourne Communications Design GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison Berkeley, CA 94702 Tel: 510-898-0670
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