From: Francis McCabe
[mailto:frankmccabe@mac.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:13 PM
To: Lublinsky, Boris
Cc: Mike Poulin; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] Are we being ignored?
I sympathize with the sentiment behind this. We have
consistently identified SOA as being at the boundary between business and IT.
It is neither wholly IT nor wholly business but is of both worlds.
That represents potentially one of SOA's greatest
opportunities; and the source of its weaknesses: neither business nor IT can
completely own/grok SOA.
Frank
On Jun 14, 2009, at 3:54 PM, Lublinsky, Boris wrote:
SOA is about architecture and as such uses different
technologies for its implementation. SOA is also much more serious business
architecture problem, that it is technical.
The majority of the problems that we are having with SOA now is
that t a large extent it was developed and run by technical geeks (I am one of
these geeks, so I do not think that this is offensive), that are more
interested in SOAP vs REST or HTTP vs JMS then IT/business alignment. The
former is important, but the latter will make or break SOA.
So, what exactly does it mean to give SOA RM in the hands of
developers? Most of them are interested mostly in development tools.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rex Brooks"
To: "Lublinsky, Boris" , "Mike Poulin" , soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] Are we being ignored?
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 08:41:18 -0700
I agree. I also agree with Ken's comment. That may be due to the
sheer weight in terms of number and the quality of the
constituencies we're hearing from which are a bit impatiently
waiting for us. I think the SOA Harmonization paper makes it fairly
clear, as well, that SOA applies within AND across organizations,
not just within.
In the end I think our definition for SOA. that it is a set of
principles that spans organizations and the overall ecosystem, a
point which the NCOIC (Net-Centric Operations Industry Consortium)
represents, too.
This manifesto viewpoint is self-limiting, and pretty clearly
aiming to "own" the field with all this certification stuff and
whatnot. In the end, the market will weed out the field.
If one set of companies in just about any given domain or business
sector/segment employs tools that span across any number of
enterprises within the domain and optimize both choreographies and
orchestrations of services, and another group employs tools that
support only one or maybe two vendors' intra-enterprise ESBs that
do not span across all enterprises in that domain such that only
those companies who use the same tools can orchestrate their
services and likely can't adopt a strategy using flexible
choreographies, I would be on the former group surviving rather
than the latter, unless there is a de facto monopoly involved.
Cheers,
Rex
At 9:23 AM -0500 6/14/09, Lublinsky, Boris wrote:
> Content-Type: text/HTML
> X-NAIMIME-Disclaimer: 1
> X-NAIMIME-Modified: 1
>
> According to it SOA is:
> A distributed technology architectural model with distinct
> characteristics in support of realizing service-orientation.
> This is really bad,
> He is saying that SOA is a technology, This is the thing that is
> killing SOA in the first place. It also opens the door for all
> kinds of vendor's wars, proclaiming that their SOA is the best
> one.
>
>
> From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com]
> Sent: Sun 6/14/2009 2:55 AM
> To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] Are we being ignored?
>
> I would like to put your attention on SOA Manifesto at
> http://www.soa-manifesto.com/ from Thomas Erl.
>
> - Michael
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Laskey"
> To: "Heather Kreger"
> Cc: "Jeffrey.A.Estefan@jpl.nasa.gov"
, "Duane Nickull" ,
> "Lublinsky, Boris" , "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org"
> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] SOA RA from opengroup
> Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 23:24:41 -0400
>
> Heather,
>
> Thanks for the clarification. Do you folks still have the
> comments we previously submitted or should I try to recover them
> and resubmit?
>
> Ken
>
> On May 7, 2009, at 11:14 PM, Heather Kreger wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi,
>> My emails to the soa-rm-ra list keep bouncing,
>>
>> Please remember that the SOA Source Book went to the publishers
>> during the San Diego meeting, so it was set before our
>> engagement. In addition, the SOA Source Book is supposed to be a
>> snapshot of the work at The Open Group at the end of 2008-ish,
>> not normative content in and of itself. It is not a standard.
>> The standards work that this is a snapshot of will continue to
>> evolve and comments will be addressed in the work groups. The
>> SOA Source book will be updated accordingly and will point the
>> standard as they are released.
>>
>> As a heads up and so its not misinterpreted, the SOA RA WG is
>> making an initial draft based on the IBM submission publically
>> available very shortly. It will not go through standardization.
>> Its simply our starting point that we can use to solicit
>> comments. This draft does not incorporate any major comments.
>> The SOA RA group is currently working on the next major draft
>> for this summer which will include ABBs, usecases , and comments.
>> If you could resend your comments, we still have plenty of time
>> to address and respond to them.
>>
>> I think thus far we have always shown the TOG RA to be more
>> concrete than the OASIS RA .. but not a concrete solution in the
>> TOGAF sense (if I understand your comment correctly)..
>> Sincerely,
>> Heather Kreger
>> STSM, SOA Standards, Standards, SWG, IBM
>> Member of IBM Academy of Technology
>> Author of "Java and JMX: Building Manageable Systems"
>> kreger@us.ibm.com
>> 919-543-3211 (t/l 441) cell:919-496-9572 home office: 919-853-3772
>>
>>
> Ken Laskey <klaskey@mitre.org>
>
> 05/07/2009 05:44 PM
>
> To
> "Lublinsky, Boris"
> <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>
> cc
> "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org"
> <soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Subject
> Re: [soa-rm-ra] SOA RA from opengroup
>
>
>
>
>
> This is distressing because we submitted detailed comments, never
> got an acknowledgement even after asking about it, and the
> comments were obviously ignored.
>
> OTOH, if in the harmonization drawings this RA is shown tending
> towards a concrete solution rather than an abstract
> representation of a solution -- AND THAT IS MADE CLEAR -- then
> it is what it is.
>
> Ken
>
> On May 7, 2009, at 4:18 PM, Lublinsky, Boris wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.opengroup.org/projects/soa-book/page.tpl?CALLER=page.tpl&ggid=1334
>>
>> http://www.opengroup.org/projects/soa-book/page.tpl?CALLER=page.tpl&ggid=1335
>>
>> Taken straight from IBM
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934
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