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Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] Are we being ignored?

Title: Re: [soa-rm-ra] Are we being ignored?
You all know that Thomas was/is(?) still part of this TC. Perhaps we can ask him to attend a  meeting?  He lives near me in Vancouver.  Peter and I can go out for a beer with him.


On 6/16/09 1:03 AM, "Peter Brown" <peter@pensive.eu> wrote:

Hmmm, I'm curious how many people off this list have discussed or will
discuss Thomas' manifesto call. He's a great guy with much to contribute
intellectually but shouldn't we be a little more upbeat and confident of
our own work and value? Has anyone actually responded to his call? In
droves..? I suspect not. And each posting we make on the subject is
going to increase his Google pagerank! ;-)

I too think that Frank hit the spot.


-----Original Message-----
From: Thornton, Danny R (IS) [mailto:Danny.Thornton@ngc.com]
Sent: 15 June 2009 08:59
To: mpoulin@usa.com; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] Are we being ignored?

In 2006, I purchased one of Thomas Erl's SOA books because he was one of
the first people with a large volume of information published on the
subject.  I also found the OASIS SOA RM draft about the same time.  I
later purchased a second SOA book of Thomas Erl's to gain more of his

As a working software architect, I have not used Thomas Erl's books for
SOA.   I have, however, worked with multiple companies and also people
in the government responsible for project oversight who have frequently
cited the OASIS SOA Reference Model.

As far as most developers go, they will not be won over until they have
the tools in hand to help them more effectively get their jobs done on a
day-to-day bases.  Developers are won over by things like the use of
WSDLs to generate clients, being able to use XML schemas to generate
marshalling/unmarshalling code,  automated support for WS-* standards.
I would guess the time horizon for tools to mature to support a full SOA
ecosystem will be around 2020.  

I would also guess the OASIS SOA RA will gain traction in a top down
fashion meaning that decision makers with authority to direct funds for
software projects will cite the OASIS SOA RM & RA and developers will
have to know how to respond.


-----Original Message-----
From: mpoulin@usa.com [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com]
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:24 AM
To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] Are we being ignored?

Exactly, Frank!

I only point to the concern that saying right things in SOA RA may be
not enough because the second, but also first priority, thing is to win
the audience.

I said make SOA RA much more VISIBLE to developers just to mitigate the
resistance in both Business and IT to what SOA really is (the provider
at the boarder, a bridge suitable to both Business and Technology). In
my opinion, developers have to start thinking in services instead of in
IT application integration and accept that thinking though SOA solutions
and re-arranging development process around services and service
compositions are must have aspects of modern IT work.

That is, I am calling for more aggressive promotion of RA opinions,
statements, views and approaches. (As I mentioned already, SoaML
standard repeats declarative wording from SOA RM but drops the actual
consequences from them for the sake of winning developers who do not see
real SOA wood behind the Web Services trees)

- Michael

Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] Are we being ignored?
        From: Francis McCabe <frankmccabe@mac.com>
        To: "Lublinsky, Boris" <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>
        Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:12:47 -0700

I sympathize with the sentiment behind this. We have consistently
identified SOA as being at the boundary between business and IT. It is
neither wholly IT nor wholly business but is of both worlds.
That represents potentially one of SOA's greatest opportunities; and the
source of its weaknesses: neither business nor IT can completely
own/grok SOA.


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Sr. Technical Evangelist – Adobe Systems
Chair – OASIS SOA RM Technical Committee
Manager – Adobe LiveCycle ES Developers List

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