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Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] Are we being ignored?

No offense, Duane,

But until we get our puppy house-broken and out the door, I 
personally don't want to distract ourselves from the task at hand. 
While in normal times a mental health day off is helpful, right now, 
we need to get beyond the Trust discussion get the wrap up of the RAF 
figured out and scheduled, (we are actually on track for that-more or 
less) and then I'd love to do some cross-pollination or general 


At 9:06 AM -0700 6/25/09, Duane Nickull wrote:
>You all know that Thomas was/is(?) still part of this TC. Perhaps we 
>can ask him to attend a  meeting?  He lives near me in Vancouver. 
> Peter and I can go out for a beer with him.
>On 6/16/09 1:03 AM, "Peter Brown" <<>peter@pensive.eu> wrote:
>Hmmm, I'm curious how many people off this list have discussed or will
>discuss Thomas' manifesto call. He's a great guy with much to contribute
>intellectually but shouldn't we be a little more upbeat and confident of
>our own work and value? Has anyone actually responded to his call? In
>droves..? I suspect not. And each posting we make on the subject is
>going to increase his Google pagerank! ;-)
>I too think that Frank hit the spot.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Thornton, Danny R (IS) 
>Sent: 15 June 2009 08:59
>To: <>mpoulin@usa.com; <>soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
>Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] Are we being ignored?
>In 2006, I purchased one of Thomas Erl's SOA books because he was one of
>the first people with a large volume of information published on the
>subject.  I also found the OASIS SOA RM draft about the same time.  I
>later purchased a second SOA book of Thomas Erl's to gain more of his
>As a working software architect, I have not used Thomas Erl's books for
>SOA.   I have, however, worked with multiple companies and also people
>in the government responsible for project oversight who have frequently
>cited the OASIS SOA Reference Model.
>As far as most developers go, they will not be won over until they have
>the tools in hand to help them more effectively get their jobs done on a
>day-to-day bases.  Developers are won over by things like the use of
>WSDLs to generate clients, being able to use XML schemas to generate
>marshalling/unmarshalling code,  automated support for WS-* standards.
>I would guess the time horizon for tools to mature to support a full SOA
>ecosystem will be around 2020.  
>I would also guess the OASIS SOA RA will gain traction in a top down
>fashion meaning that decision makers with authority to direct funds for
>software projects will cite the OASIS SOA RM & RA and developers will
>have to know how to respond.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: <>mpoulin@usa.com [<mailto:mpoulin@usa.com>mailto:mpoulin@usa.com]
>Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:24 AM
>To: <>soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
>Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] Are we being ignored?
>Exactly, Frank!
>I only point to the concern that saying right things in SOA RA may be
>not enough because the second, but also first priority, thing is to win
>the audience.
>I said make SOA RA much more VISIBLE to developers just to mitigate the
>resistance in both Business and IT to what SOA really is (the provider
>at the boarder, a bridge suitable to both Business and Technology). In
>my opinion, developers have to start thinking in services instead of in
>IT application integration and accept that thinking though SOA solutions
>and re-arranging development process around services and service
>compositions are must have aspects of modern IT work.
>That is, I am calling for more aggressive promotion of RA opinions,
>statements, views and approaches. (As I mentioned already, SoaML
>standard repeats declarative wording from SOA RM but drops the actual
>consequences from them for the sake of winning developers who do not see
>real SOA wood behind the Web Services trees)
>- Michael
>Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] Are we being ignored?
>         From: Francis McCabe <<>frankmccabe@mac.com>
>         To: "Lublinsky, Boris" <<>boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>
>         Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:12:47 -0700
>I sympathize with the sentiment behind this. We have consistently
>identified SOA as being at the boundary between business and IT. It is
>neither wholly IT nor wholly business but is of both worlds.
>That represents potentially one of SOA's greatest opportunities; and the
>source of its weaknesses: neither business nor IT can completely
>own/grok SOA.
>To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
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>Sr. Technical Evangelist - Adobe Systems
>Chair - OASIS SOA RM Technical Committee
>Manager - Adobe LiveCycle ES Developers List
>Blog: <http://technoracle.blogspot.com>http://technoracle.blogspot.com
>Twitter: duanechaos
>Duane's World TV: <http://www.duanesworldtv.org>http://www.duanesworldtv.org
>Band: <http://www.myspace.com/22ndcentury>http://www.myspace.com/22ndcentury
>Author - <a 
>">Web 2.0 Architecture</a>

Rex Brooks
President, CEO
Starbourne Communications Design
GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
Berkeley, CA 94702
Tel: 510-898-0670

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