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Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: [soa-rm-ra]positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]


Very minor grammar correction, Boris,

I'm just a nit picker.

;)
Rex

Lublinsky, Boris wrote:
> I haven't seen people discussing my grammar so much lately. I am doing
> something wrong sorry.
> I am fine with managing 
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:07 AM
> To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS)
> Cc: Lublinsky, Boris; Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com;
> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was:
> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> I'm being technically challenged at the moment with remote participation
>
> in overlapping meetings the latter of which isn't starting and the 
> former of which appears to have ended early while I dropped off to 
> attend the latter.Sheseh!
>
> Here's how I would correct Boris's grammar with one word-substitution: I
>
> don't want the concept of "orchestration" being confused with the use of
>
> "orchestrating" so I am changing that to "managing" which we don't spend
>
> much attention on in the RAF yet .(I just want to avoid anyone asking if
>
> we mean that "all business services must be delivered via
> orchestration."):
>
> Business drives the definition of business services aligned with
> enterprise business functionality and business processes, managing
> execution of these services, while IT defines infrastructure services,
> providing support across a wide range of business services and
> implements
> both types of services. Such collaboration allows stronger
> communications between both, by creating one-to-one mapping between
> business and IT artifacts.
>
> Regardless, since it is clear that Bob did not actually pick up Boris's 
> additions and so didn't drop them, and Ken had one more addition he was 
> considering, could we ask Ken to correct Boris's grammar, fold in Bob's 
> slight rewording and add his piece? Then, perhaps Jeff and/or Jim could 
> make the crisp differentiation between business services and SOA 
> services or between business services and IT services
>
> Cheers,
> Rex
>
> Ellinger, Robert S (IS) wrote:
>   
>> Didn't intend to drop Boris's additions...must of missed them.  I
>> thought we were to start from where you left off, so that is what I
>>     
> did.
>   
>> Sorry Boris...Perhaps we were working concurrently and the material
>> crossed.
>>
>> Bob 
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] 
>> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 1:10 AM
>> To: Lublinsky, Boris
>> Cc: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com;
>> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was:
>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
>>
>> My task was to get the work rolling. I have minor quibbles with
>>     
> correct
>   
>> English grammar in Boris's additions, and I agree with Jeff that the
>> distinction between "business service' and "SOA service" needs to be
>> made. In general I think simpler is better, but as long as the grammar
>> is corrected, I'd be fine with Boris's additions. I don't have any
>> problems with Bob's minor rewording, but i don't see why he dropped
>> Boris's additions..
>>
>> I'll look at it again in the morning.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Rex
>>
>> Lublinsky, Boris wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> You through away all changes that were suggested after this initial
>>>     
>>>       
>> one?
>>   
>>     
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ellinger, Robert S (IS) [mailto:robert.ellinger@ngc.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:41 PM
>>> To: rexb@starbourne.com
>>> Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
>>> Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was:
>>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
>>>
>>> I'd recommend some minor rewording... 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 1:16 PM
>>> To: rexb@starbourne.com
>>> Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
>>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was:
>>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
>>>
>>> First pass at the Section 1.2 as an additional paragraph after the 
>>> first paragraph. I include the first paragraph and the start of the 
>>> current second paragraph here for the context:
>>>
>>> 1.2 Service Oriented Archtecture - An Ecosystem Perspective
>>>
>>> Many systems cannot be understood by a simple decomposition into
>>>       
> parts
>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>   
>>     
>>> and subsystems -- in particular when there are many interactions 
>>> between the parts. For example, a biological ecosystem is a 
>>> self-sustaining association of plants, animals, and the hysical 
>>> environment in which they live. Undestanding an ecosystem often 
>>> requires a holistic perspective rather than one focusing on the
>>>     
>>>       
>> system's individual parts.
>>   
>>     
>>> The SOA Ecosystem described in this document occupies the boundary 
>>> between Business and IT. It is neither wholly IT nor wholly Business,
>>>       
>
>   
>>> but is of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT completely own, govern
>>>       
>
>   
>>> and manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both sets of concerns must be 
>>> accommodated for the SOA Ecosystem to fulfill its purposes. Business 
>>> needs drive the development of services delivered through IT, 
>>> providing the capability that satisfies those needs. This is the 
>>> business value of SOA.
>>>
>>>  From a holistic perspective, a SOA-based system is a network of 
>>> independent services, machines, the people who operate, affect, use 
>>> and govern those services as well as ...
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Rex
>>>
>>> Rex Brooks wrote:
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> Hi Ken, Everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I believe that the email you are looking for is your reply to Frank:
>>>>         
>
>   
> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/soa-rm-ra/email/archives
>   
>>>> /
>>>> 200906/msg00012.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is what Frank Wrote Jun 14, 2009, at 7:12 PM:
>>>>
>>>> "I sympathize with the sentiment behind this. We have consistently 
>>>> identified SOA as being at the boundary between business and IT. It 
>>>> is
>>>>     
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> neither wholly IT nor wholly business but is of both worlds.
>>>>
>>>> That represents potentially one of SOA's greatest opportunities; and
>>>>         
>
>   
>>>> the source of its weaknesses: neither business nor IT can completely
>>>>         
>
>   
>>>> own/grok SOA.
>>>>
>>>> Frank"
>>>>
>>>> The email referenced above contains the most or all of the thread 
>>>> "Are
>>>>     
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> we being ignored?"
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure we would help ourselves if we say more than "The SOA 
>>>> Ecosystem described in this document occupies the boundary between 
>>>> Business and IT. It is neither wholly IT nor wholly Business, but is
>>>>         
>
>   
>>>> of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT completely own, govern and 
>>>> manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both sets of concerns MUST be
>>>>         
> accommodated
>   
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>   
>>     
>>>> for the SOA Ecosystem to fulfill its purposes."
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Rex
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Laskey, Ken wrote:
>>>>     
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>>>> This is a reminder that this week we are scheduled to discuss
>>>>>           
> adding
>   
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>   
>>     
>>>>> the text on the overlap of SOA and business.  Below is text 
>>>>> suggested
>>>>>       
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>>> by Michael Poulin and there is another email from Boris with a lot 
>>>>> of
>>>>>       
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>>> idea that would need to be condensed and
>>>>>           
> added/substituted/combined.
>   
>>>>> Let's get the discussion far enough along that we can bring this to
>>>>>           
>
>   
>>>>> (close to) closure by the end of Wednesday's call.
>>>>>
>>>>> I remember there was an email where Frank wrote something very
>>>>>           
> crisp
>   
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>   
>>     
>>>>> on this subject that I replied was exactly what we needed to say.
>>>>> Unfortunately, I have no idea when that email thread occurred.  If 
>>>>> someone could find it, I think it would be a good contribution to 
>>>>> the
>>>>>       
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Back to Mike's suggested text, two immediate things come to mind.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Section 1.4 is a discussion of the views and this is not a view 
>>>>> to
>>>>>       
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>>> be added as 1.4.4.  I think it fits after section 1.2, possibly as 
>>>>> another short section.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. It is not obvious to me what the phrase "the similarity of the 
>>>>> principles of the Value Networks business model" means.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>   
>>>>> -
>>>>> ------
>>>>>
>>>>> Dr. Kenneth Laskey
>>>>> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305              phone: 703-983-7934
>>>>> 7515 Colshire Drive                                    fax:        
>>>>> 703-983-1379
>>>>> McLean VA 22102-7508
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: mpoulin@usa.com [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] Sent: Thursday, 
>>>>> September 10, 2009 11:31 AM
>>>>> To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>> Subject: [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and 
>>>>> business
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Folks,
>>>>>
>>>>>  I join Francis and Boris in suggestion that SOA RA's Introduction 
>>>>> would benefit from adding a couple of paragraphs on the business 
>>>>> aspects of SOA positioned across Business and IT.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the previous message I composed a few words for a small section 
>>>>> on
>>>>>       
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>>> this topic and propose to discuss them as an initial draft during 
>>>>> the
>>>>>       
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>>> next (or following) Telecom. Proposed text may be found in the 
>>>>> middle
>>>>>       
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>>> of this message chain.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>> - Michael
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>   
>>>>> -
>>>>> -----------
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: RE: todos for PR2
>>>>>
>>>>> From: mpoulin@usa.com To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org Date: 8
>>>>>           
> Sep
>   
>>>>> 2009 16:21:26 -0000
>>>>>
>>>>>           
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>   
>>>>> -
>>>>> -----------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business" is what I 
>>>>> write
>>>>>       
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>>> a lot for last few months. So, let me propose a strawman for this
>>>>>       
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>> text:
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>>> 1.4.4 Business Value of the Service Oriented Architecture
>>>>>
>>>>> A Service Oriented Architecture realizes principles of the concept 
>>>>> of
>>>>>       
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>>> service orientation in the sphere of architecture. The architecture
>>>>>           
>
>   
>>>>> in the organisation comprises both business architecture and 
>>>>> technical architecture of the systems [ref. to TOGAF 9.0]. While 
>>>>> SOA-based systems address aspects of the technical architecture,
>>>>>           
> the
>   
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>   
>>     
>>>>> similarity of the principles of the Value Networks business model 
>>>>> and
>>>>>       
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>>> SOA allows us to see SOA as a conceptual bridge between corporate 
>>>>> Business and IT.
>>>>>
>>>>> Noticed similarity opens up new possibilities for Business and IT
>>>>>           
> to
>   
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>   
>>     
>>>>> construct service-oriented customer-centric convergent solutions
>>>>>           
> for
>   
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>   
>>     
>>>>> business problems. Service orientation enables operational and 
>>>>> technical flexibility, which contributes to business efficiency the
>>>>>           
>
>   
>>>>> great deal. The Service Orientation concept has the potential not 
>>>>> only to align IT with Business, but also to align the entire
>>>>>           
> company
>   
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>   
>>     
>>>>> with the market dynamics.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If the ideas in this writing are acceptable, I will work on the
>>>>>       
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>> wording.
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>>>>> - Michael Poulin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>   
>>>>> -
>>>>> -----------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Francis McCabe <fmccabe@gmail.com> To: 
>>>>> "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org RA"
>>>>>           
> <soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org>
>   
>>>>> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:24:08 -0700
>>>>>
>>>>>           
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>   
>>>>> -
>>>>> -----------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. As Boris alluded to, I think that a paragraph or two in the 
>>>>> introduction positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business 
>>>>> could  be very useful. It is also pretty faithful to the RAF!
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. The concept of interaction in the RM referred *everything* 
>>>>> involved  in interacting with services. For the RA we have to
>>>>>           
> unpack
>   
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>   
>>     
>>>>> that some.  This is the foundation for the multi-leveled concept of
>>>>>           
>
>   
>>>>> joint action.  This should go in Section 3.1.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. I think that Danny's security diagram should be updated and 
>>>>> incorporated.
>>>>>
>>>>> 4. The trust and willingness stuff should go in.
>>>>>
>>>>> 5. It would be good if we could go through the text bolding defined
>>>>>           
>
>   
>>>>> concepts.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>   
>>>>> -
>>>>> -----------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>   
>>>>> -
>>>>> -----------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date 
>>>>> Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]
>>>>>   
>>>>>       
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>>>     
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> --
>>> Rex Brooks
>>> President, CEO
>>> Starbourne Communications Design
>>> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
>>> Berkeley, CA 94702
>>> Tel: 510-898-0670
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that 
>>> generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at:
>>>
>>>       
> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
>   
>>>
>>> The information contained in this communication may be CONFIDENTIAL
>>>     
>>>       
>> and is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above.  If
>> you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
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> of
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> the
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>> original message and any copy of it from your computer or paper files.
>>   
>>     
>>>   
>>>     
>>>       
>> --
>> Rex Brooks
>> President, CEO
>> Starbourne Communications Design
>> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
>> Berkeley, CA 94702
>> Tel: 510-898-0670
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
>> generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at:
>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
>>     
>
>   
>>
>>   
>>     
>
>
>   


-- 
Rex Brooks
President, CEO
Starbourne Communications Design
GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
Berkeley, CA 94702
Tel: 510-898-0670



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