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Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: [soa-rm-ra]positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
Very minor grammar correction, Boris, I'm just a nit picker. ;) Rex Lublinsky, Boris wrote: > I haven't seen people discussing my grammar so much lately. I am doing > something wrong sorry. > I am fine with managing > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:07 AM > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS) > Cc: Lublinsky, Boris; Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > > Hi Folks, > > I'm being technically challenged at the moment with remote participation > > in overlapping meetings the latter of which isn't starting and the > former of which appears to have ended early while I dropped off to > attend the latter.Sheseh! > > Here's how I would correct Boris's grammar with one word-substitution: I > > don't want the concept of "orchestration" being confused with the use of > > "orchestrating" so I am changing that to "managing" which we don't spend > > much attention on in the RAF yet .(I just want to avoid anyone asking if > > we mean that "all business services must be delivered via > orchestration."): > > Business drives the definition of business services aligned with > enterprise business functionality and business processes, managing > execution of these services, while IT defines infrastructure services, > providing support across a wide range of business services and > implements > both types of services. Such collaboration allows stronger > communications between both, by creating one-to-one mapping between > business and IT artifacts. > > Regardless, since it is clear that Bob did not actually pick up Boris's > additions and so didn't drop them, and Ken had one more addition he was > considering, could we ask Ken to correct Boris's grammar, fold in Bob's > slight rewording and add his piece? Then, perhaps Jeff and/or Jim could > make the crisp differentiation between business services and SOA > services or between business services and IT services > > Cheers, > Rex > > Ellinger, Robert S (IS) wrote: > >> Didn't intend to drop Boris's additions...must of missed them. I >> thought we were to start from where you left off, so that is what I >> > did. > >> Sorry Boris...Perhaps we were working concurrently and the material >> crossed. >> >> Bob >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] >> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 1:10 AM >> To: Lublinsky, Boris >> Cc: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; >> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: >> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] >> >> My task was to get the work rolling. I have minor quibbles with >> > correct > >> English grammar in Boris's additions, and I agree with Jeff that the >> distinction between "business service' and "SOA service" needs to be >> made. In general I think simpler is better, but as long as the grammar >> is corrected, I'd be fine with Boris's additions. I don't have any >> problems with Bob's minor rewording, but i don't see why he dropped >> Boris's additions.. >> >> I'll look at it again in the morning. >> >> Cheers, >> Rex >> >> Lublinsky, Boris wrote: >> >> >>> You through away all changes that were suggested after this initial >>> >>> >> one? >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Ellinger, Robert S (IS) [mailto:robert.ellinger@ngc.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:41 PM >>> To: rexb@starbourne.com >>> Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >>> Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: >>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] >>> >>> I'd recommend some minor rewording... >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 1:16 PM >>> To: rexb@starbourne.com >>> Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: >>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] >>> >>> First pass at the Section 1.2 as an additional paragraph after the >>> first paragraph. I include the first paragraph and the start of the >>> current second paragraph here for the context: >>> >>> 1.2 Service Oriented Archtecture - An Ecosystem Perspective >>> >>> Many systems cannot be understood by a simple decomposition into >>> > parts > >>> >>> >> >> >>> and subsystems -- in particular when there are many interactions >>> between the parts. For example, a biological ecosystem is a >>> self-sustaining association of plants, animals, and the hysical >>> environment in which they live. Undestanding an ecosystem often >>> requires a holistic perspective rather than one focusing on the >>> >>> >> system's individual parts. >> >> >>> The SOA Ecosystem described in this document occupies the boundary >>> between Business and IT. It is neither wholly IT nor wholly Business, >>> > > >>> but is of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT completely own, govern >>> > > >>> and manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both sets of concerns must be >>> accommodated for the SOA Ecosystem to fulfill its purposes. Business >>> needs drive the development of services delivered through IT, >>> providing the capability that satisfies those needs. This is the >>> business value of SOA. >>> >>> From a holistic perspective, a SOA-based system is a network of >>> independent services, machines, the people who operate, affect, use >>> and govern those services as well as ... >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Rex >>> >>> Rex Brooks wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Hi Ken, Everyone, >>>> >>>> I believe that the email you are looking for is your reply to Frank: >>>> > > > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/soa-rm-ra/email/archives > >>>> / >>>> 200906/msg00012.html >>>> >>>> >>>> This is what Frank Wrote Jun 14, 2009, at 7:12 PM: >>>> >>>> "I sympathize with the sentiment behind this. We have consistently >>>> identified SOA as being at the boundary between business and IT. It >>>> is >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> neither wholly IT nor wholly business but is of both worlds. >>>> >>>> That represents potentially one of SOA's greatest opportunities; and >>>> > > >>>> the source of its weaknesses: neither business nor IT can completely >>>> > > >>>> own/grok SOA. >>>> >>>> Frank" >>>> >>>> The email referenced above contains the most or all of the thread >>>> "Are >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> we being ignored?" >>>> >>>> I'm not sure we would help ourselves if we say more than "The SOA >>>> Ecosystem described in this document occupies the boundary between >>>> Business and IT. It is neither wholly IT nor wholly Business, but is >>>> > > >>>> of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT completely own, govern and >>>> manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both sets of concerns MUST be >>>> > accommodated > >>>> >>>> >> >> >>>> for the SOA Ecosystem to fulfill its purposes." >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Rex >>>> >>>> >>>> Laskey, Ken wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> This is a reminder that this week we are scheduled to discuss >>>>> > adding > >>>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> the text on the overlap of SOA and business. Below is text >>>>> suggested >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> by Michael Poulin and there is another email from Boris with a lot >>>>> of >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> idea that would need to be condensed and >>>>> > added/substituted/combined. > >>>>> Let's get the discussion far enough along that we can bring this to >>>>> > > >>>>> (close to) closure by the end of Wednesday's call. >>>>> >>>>> I remember there was an email where Frank wrote something very >>>>> > crisp > >>>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> on this subject that I replied was exactly what we needed to say. >>>>> Unfortunately, I have no idea when that email thread occurred. If >>>>> someone could find it, I think it would be a good contribution to >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> discussion. >>>>> >>>>> Back to Mike's suggested text, two immediate things come to mind. >>>>> >>>>> 1. Section 1.4 is a discussion of the views and this is not a view >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> be added as 1.4.4. I think it fits after section 1.2, possibly as >>>>> another short section. >>>>> >>>>> 2. It is not obvious to me what the phrase "the similarity of the >>>>> principles of the Value Networks business model" means. >>>>> >>>>> Ken >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> - >>>>> ------ >>>>> >>>>> Dr. Kenneth Laskey >>>>> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 >>>>> 7515 Colshire Drive fax: >>>>> 703-983-1379 >>>>> McLean VA 22102-7508 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: mpoulin@usa.com [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] Sent: Thursday, >>>>> September 10, 2009 11:31 AM >>>>> To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >>>>> Subject: [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and >>>>> business >>>>> >>>>> Hi Folks, >>>>> >>>>> I join Francis and Boris in suggestion that SOA RA's Introduction >>>>> would benefit from adding a couple of paragraphs on the business >>>>> aspects of SOA positioned across Business and IT. >>>>> >>>>> In the previous message I composed a few words for a small section >>>>> on >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> this topic and propose to discuss them as an initial draft during >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> next (or following) Telecom. Proposed text may be found in the >>>>> middle >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> of this message chain. >>>>> >>>>> Any suggestions? >>>>> >>>>> - Michael >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> - >>>>> ----------- >>>>> >>>>> Subject: RE: todos for PR2 >>>>> >>>>> From: mpoulin@usa.com To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org Date: 8 >>>>> > Sep > >>>>> 2009 16:21:26 -0000 >>>>> >>>>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> - >>>>> ----------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business" is what I >>>>> write >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> a lot for last few months. So, let me propose a strawman for this >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> text: >>> >>> >>> >>>>> 1.4.4 Business Value of the Service Oriented Architecture >>>>> >>>>> A Service Oriented Architecture realizes principles of the concept >>>>> of >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> service orientation in the sphere of architecture. The architecture >>>>> > > >>>>> in the organisation comprises both business architecture and >>>>> technical architecture of the systems [ref. to TOGAF 9.0]. While >>>>> SOA-based systems address aspects of the technical architecture, >>>>> > the > >>>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> similarity of the principles of the Value Networks business model >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> SOA allows us to see SOA as a conceptual bridge between corporate >>>>> Business and IT. >>>>> >>>>> Noticed similarity opens up new possibilities for Business and IT >>>>> > to > >>>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> construct service-oriented customer-centric convergent solutions >>>>> > for > >>>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> business problems. Service orientation enables operational and >>>>> technical flexibility, which contributes to business efficiency the >>>>> > > >>>>> great deal. The Service Orientation concept has the potential not >>>>> only to align IT with Business, but also to align the entire >>>>> > company > >>>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> with the market dynamics. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If the ideas in this writing are acceptable, I will work on the >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> wording. >>> >>> >>> >>>>> - Michael Poulin >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> - >>>>> ----------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: Francis McCabe <fmccabe@gmail.com> To: >>>>> "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org RA" >>>>> > <soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> > >>>>> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:24:08 -0700 >>>>> >>>>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> - >>>>> ----------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 1. As Boris alluded to, I think that a paragraph or two in the >>>>> introduction positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business >>>>> could be very useful. It is also pretty faithful to the RAF! >>>>> >>>>> 2. The concept of interaction in the RM referred *everything* >>>>> involved in interacting with services. For the RA we have to >>>>> > unpack > >>>>> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> that some. This is the foundation for the multi-leveled concept of >>>>> > > >>>>> joint action. This should go in Section 3.1. >>>>> >>>>> 3. I think that Danny's security diagram should be updated and >>>>> incorporated. >>>>> >>>>> 4. The trust and willingness stuff should go in. >>>>> >>>>> 5. It would be good if we could go through the text bolding defined >>>>> > > >>>>> concepts. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> - >>>>> ----------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> - >>>>> ----------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> [Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date >>>>> Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Rex Brooks >>> President, CEO >>> Starbourne Communications Design >>> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison >>> Berkeley, CA 94702 >>> Tel: 510-898-0670 >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >>> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: >>> >>> > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > >>> >>> The information contained in this communication may be CONFIDENTIAL >>> >>> >> and is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. If >> you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >> dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication, or any >> > of > >> its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this >> communication in error, please notify the sender and delete/destroy >> > the > >> original message and any copy of it from your computer or paper files. >> >> >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> Rex Brooks >> President, CEO >> Starbourne Communications Design >> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison >> Berkeley, CA 94702 >> Tel: 510-898-0670 >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: >> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >> > > >> >> >> > > > -- Rex Brooks President, CEO Starbourne Communications Design GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison Berkeley, CA 94702 Tel: 510-898-0670
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