[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]
Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: [soa-rm-ra]positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
Hi Michael, It's not my wording. Its my best shot at wording the consensus we seemed to be near at the end of Wednesday's meeting, so we can get this document out the door and accommodate the last minute requests to put in a paragraph that places the SOA Ecosystem viewpoint of the document between and spanning business and IT, rather than making eany further claims. I just did my best to capture the last dialog we had. I happen to agree with what I said. The overwhelming majority of people I know who are involved with SOA are doing so for sound business reasons, and our usual problem is getting those with that orientation to understand the IT requirements to fulfill their needs. I don't make the marketplace, I just try to understand it and work with it. We can disagree without being disagreeable, but we have committed ourselves to finishing this work. My last message before this one was to say that I would prefer to take this paragraph out and leave the document as it was rather than get into wrangling with the semantics and the actual differences involved. We are committed to getting a version ready by Oct 7 to give the SOA-RM TC a week to absorb it before moving to a second public review. Cheers, Rex Mike Poulin wrote: > Rex, > > your wording locks SOA in IT: " the development of services delivered > through IT". I strongly disagree. > > Business has its own business services that may or may not utilise > technical services, this does not downsides the business value of SOA > working in the Business first and only then - in Technology. This is > how SOA situates in between Business and Technology. (I write about > this in the book 'Ladder to SOE') > > (BTW, there is a lot of discussions now that argue that all so-called > 'business processes' are nothing more than implementation of business > services. Also, the Value Networks business model supports > service-oriented business organisation in the contrast with Value > Chain model, which leads to the process-oriented enterprise) > > Thanks, > - Michael > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rex Brooks" > To: rexb@starbourne.com > Cc: "Laskey, Ken" , "mpoulin@usa.com" , > "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org" > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:15:45 -0700 > > > First pass at the Section 1.2 as an additional paragraph after the > first paragraph. I include the first paragraph and the start of the > current second paragraph here for the context: > > 1.2 Service Oriented Archtecture - An Ecosystem Perspective > > Many systems cannot be understood by a simple decomposition into > parts and subsystems -- in particular when there are many > interactions between the parts. For example, a biological ecosystem > is a self-sustaining association of plants, animals, and the > hysical environment in which they live. Undestanding an ecosystem > often requires a holistic perspective rather than one focusing on > the system's individual parts. > > The SOA Ecosystem described in this document occupies the boundary > between Business and IT. It is neither wholly IT nor wholly > Business, but is of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT completely > own, govern and manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both sets of concerns > must be accommodated for the SOA Ecosystem to fulfill its purposes. > Business needs drive the development of services delivered through > IT, providing the capability that satisfies those needs. This is > the business value of SOA. > > From a holistic perspective, a SOA-based system is a network of > independent services, machines, the people who operate, affect, use > and govern those services as well as ... > > Cheers, > Rex > > Rex Brooks wrote: > > Hi Ken, Everyone, > > > > I believe that the email you are looking for is your reply to > > Frank: > > > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/soa-rm-ra/email/archives/200906/msg00012.html > This is what Frank Wrote Jun 14, 2009, at 7:12 > > PM: > > > > "I sympathize with the sentiment behind this. We have > > consistently identified SOA as being at the boundary between > > business and IT. It is neither wholly IT nor wholly business but > > is of both worlds. > > > > That represents potentially one of SOA's greatest opportunities; > > and the source of its weaknesses: neither business nor IT can > > completely own/grok SOA. > > > > Frank" > > > > The email referenced above contains the most or all of the thread > > "Are we being ignored?" > > > > I'm not sure we would help ourselves if we say more than "The SOA > > Ecosystem described in this document occupies the boundary > > between Business and IT. It is neither wholly IT nor wholly > > Business, but is of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT > > completely own, govern and manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both sets > > of concerns MUST be accommodated for the SOA Ecosystem to fulfill > > its purposes." > > > > Cheers, > > Rex > > > > > > Laskey, Ken wrote: > >> This is a reminder that this week we are scheduled to discuss > >> adding the text on the overlap of SOA and business. Below is > >> text suggested by Michael Poulin and there is another email from > >> Boris with a lot of idea that would need to be condensed and > >> added/substituted/combined. Let's get the discussion far enough > >> along that we can bring this to (close to) closure by the end of > >> Wednesday's call. > >> > >> I remember there was an email where Frank wrote something very > >> crisp on this subject that I replied was exactly what we needed > >> to say. Unfortunately, I have no idea when that email thread > >> occurred. If someone could find it, I think it would be a good > >> contribution to the discussion. > >> > >> Back to Mike's suggested text, two immediate things come to mind. > >> > >> 1. Section 1.4 is a discussion of the views and this is not a > >> view to be added as 1.4.4. I think it fits after section 1.2, > >> possibly as another short section. > >> > >> 2. It is not obvious to me what the phrase "the similarity of > >> the principles of the Value Networks business model" means. > >> > >> Ken > >> > >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> Dr. Kenneth Laskey > >> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 > >> 7515 Colshire Drive fax: > >> 703-983-1379 > >> McLean VA 22102-7508 > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: mpoulin@usa.com [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] Sent: Thursday, > >> September 10, 2009 11:31 AM > >> To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > >> Subject: [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and > business > >> > >> Hi Folks, > >> > >> I join Francis and Boris in suggestion that SOA RA's > >> Introduction would benefit from adding a couple of paragraphs on > >> the business aspects of SOA positioned across Business and IT. > >> > >> In the previous message I composed a few words for a small > >> section on this topic and propose to discuss them as an initial > >> draft during the next (or following) Telecom. Proposed text may > >> be found in the middle of this message chain. > >> > >> Any suggestions? > >> > >> - Michael > >> > >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Subject: RE: todos for > >> PR2 > >> > >> From: mpoulin@usa.com To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org Date: 8 > >> Sep 2009 16:21:26 -0000 > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business" is what I > write a lot for last few months. So, let me propose a strawman for > this > >> text: > >> > >> > >> 1.4.4 Business Value of the Service Oriented Architecture > >> > >> A Service Oriented Architecture realizes principles of the > >> concept of service orientation in the sphere of architecture. > >> The architecture in the organisation comprises both business > >> architecture and technical architecture of the systems [ref. to > >> TOGAF 9.0]. While SOA-based systems address aspects of the > >> technical architecture, the similarity of the principles of the > >> Value Networks business model and SOA allows us to see SOA as a > >> conceptual bridge between corporate Business and IT. > >> > >> Noticed similarity opens up new possibilities for Business and > >> IT to construct service-oriented customer-centric convergent > >> solutions for business problems. Service orientation enables > >> operational and technical flexibility, which contributes to > >> business efficiency the great deal. The Service Orientation > >> concept has the potential not only to align IT with Business, > >> but also to align the entire company with the market dynamics. > >> > >> > >> If the ideas in this writing are acceptable, I will work on the > wording. > >> > >> - Michael Poulin > >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: Francis McCabe To: "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org RA" Date: > Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:24:08 > >> -0700 > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > 1. As Boris alluded to, I think that a paragraph or two in the > introduction positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business > could be very useful. It is also pretty faithful to the > >> RAF! > >> > >> 2. The concept of interaction in the RM referred *everything* > >> involved in interacting with services. For the RA we have to > >> unpack that some. This is the foundation for the multi-leveled > >> concept of joint action. This should go in Section 3.1. > >> > >> 3. I think that Danny's security diagram should be updated and > >> incorporated. > >> > >> 4. The trust and willingness stuff should go in. > >> > >> 5. It would be good if we could go through the text bolding > >> defined concepts. > >> > >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > [Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date > Index] | [Thread Index] | [List > >> Home] > >> > > > > > > > -- Rex Brooks > President, CEO > Starbourne Communications Design > GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison > Berkeley, CA 94702 > Tel: 510-898-0670 > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > > > -- > *An Excellent Credit Score is 750* > *See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!* > <http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;216722518;39159097;q?http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?pagetypeid=homepage62&sc=669615&bcd=FOOTER5%20> -- Rex Brooks President, CEO Starbourne Communications Design GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison Berkeley, CA 94702 Tel: 510-898-0670
[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]