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Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: [soa-rm-ra]positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
Bob, this is the phrase: From a holistic perspective, a SOA-based system is a network of independent services, machines, the people who operate, affect, use and govern those services as well as ... I propose to say: "...a network of independent and composite services, machines, the..." - Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" <robert.ellinger@ngc.com> > To: "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>, "Lublinsky, Boris" <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>, soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:40:28 -0500 > > > There was one sentence that you sent that I could not make head or tail > of as I noted. Otherwise, I thought I had incorporated all of your > comments > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:31 PM > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Mike Poulin; Lublinsky, Boris; > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > > I am afraid, I am lost. I do not see some of the crucial changes I > advocated for and you agreed to accommodate: > > > "The SOA Ecosystem described in this document must be understood in > terms of its support of business services." > - MP - great! > > "Business services provide business functionality in pursuit of business > outcome; while SOA services provide IT artifacts that facilitate > connectivity of functional units to realize and support the business > services." > - MP - my proposal: 'Business services provide business functionality in > pursuit of the business outcome; while IT artifacts facilitate > connectivity of functional units to realize and support the business > services.' > > "Therefore, SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly Business, but is of both > worlds." > - MP - great! You commented: 'This doesn't make sense to me. It is not > connected to SOA in anyway' but left the statement. I am for having this > statement as it is (it is not my text but very right one IMO) > > "Neither Business nor IT completely own, govern, and manage this SOA > Ecosystem. The SOA Ecosystem must accommodate both sets of concerns for > to fulfill its purpose and potential." > - MP - great! > > "Business needs to drive the development of services delivered through > processes and its supporting IT, which provides the capability that > satisfies those needs. This is the business value of SOA." > - MP - development of services is not necessary delivered through > processes and supporting IT. This is why my proposal is: > 'Business needs to drive the development of services, which provides > the capability that satisfies those needs. This is the business value of > SOA.' > or > 'Business needs to drive the development of services delivered through > Business and IT, which provides the capability that satisfies those > needs. This is the business value of SOA.' > > (i.e. none Business or IT , or both; SOA is in between them) > > > Thus, my variant of the text looks like this: > > The SOA Ecosystem described in this document must be understood in terms > of its support of business services. Business services provide business > functionality in pursuit of the business outcome; while IT artifacts > facilitate connectivity of functional units to realize and support the > business services. Therefore, SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly > Business, but is of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT completely own, > govern, and manage this SOA Ecosystem. The SOA Ecosystem must > accommodate both sets of concerns for to fulfill its purpose and > potential. Business needs to drive the development of services, which > provides the capability that satisfies those needs. This is the business > value of SOA. > > > > > - Michael > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" <robert.ellinger@ngc.com> > > To: "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>, "Lublinsky, Boris" > <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>, soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:56:23 -0500 > > > > > > Try this. > > > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:31 AM > > To: Lublinsky, Boris; Mike Poulin; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > > > > > > > > Boris has reminded me one thing: in the paragraph following the two > > paragraphs we are discussing now we say something like 'SOA is a > network > > of independent services...' I would modify this phrase a bit saying > > something like 'SOA is a network of independent and composite > > services...' > > > > Sorry, I did not mention this earlier. > > > > This is all what I wanted to say about SOA and Buz. > > > > - Michael > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lublinsky, Boris" > > To: "Mike Poulin" , soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:04:35 -0500 > > > > > > I tend to agree with Mike/jeff > > See below > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:15 AM > > To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > > Importance: High > > > > I believe service orientation has the enormous potential to become the > > basic business operational model and SOA will be the basis of the > > Business Architecture. > > > > Since we do not have time for this discussion now, let's return to our > > text. > > > > B.L. Moreover, as I re read the text I am realizing more and more that > > this is not so much about SOA but mostly about ESB. I am of course > over > > simplifying, but hopefully you got the jest. We managed to leap frog > > business architecture and servicizing the enterprise and jump directly > > into the issues of service interaction - ecosystem. This is fine, but > > who is going to live in this wonderful ecosystem. > > > > > > The only thing I hope to set in the RA standard is an open door to the > > Business opportunity of SOA instead of locking it in IT. > > > > This means I vote for enough 'ambiguity' in the text that would allow > > anybody to go with SOA in both - technical and business - directions, > if > > needed. > > > > B.L. Fair enough. Lets create the door, but may be, just may be open > it > > up slightly for the next review. This is why I think, the text under > > discussion, does not belong in the ecosystem, but rather above it. We > > talk about business/IT alignment and then define ecosystem > > > > The following is my modifications to the text that together aim only > one > > statement: "SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly Business, but is of > both > > worlds." Particularly: > > > > a) I agree in full with: > > < > > components and subsystems. They must be understood within their > context > > or environment; particularly, when there are many interactions among > the > > parts. For example, a biological ecosystem is a self-sustaining > > association of plants, animals, and the physical environment in which > > they live. Understanding an ecosystem often requires this holistic > > perspective of the system and its environment rather than one focusing > > on the system's individual parts.>> > > > > b) I DISagree with << The SOA Ecosystem described in this document > must > > be understood in terms of its support of business services, which is > its > > environment.>> > > My proposal is this: > > << The SOA Ecosystem described in this document must be understood in > > terms of its support of business services.>> > > > > B.L. See comment above > > > > c) I DISagree with << Business services provide business functionality > > in pursuit of the business outcome; while SOA services provide IT > > artifacts that facilitate connectivity of functional units to realize > > and support the business services. Therefore, SOA is neither wholly IT > > nor wholly Business, but is of both worlds. >> > > My proposal is this: > > < > > outcome, together with its technical realization and support provided > by > > Information Technology. Therefore, SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly > > Business, but is of both worlds.>> > > > > B.L. How about: > > << SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly Business, but is of both > worlds. > > Without involvement of the business, defining service functionality > > based on the enterprise business model and aligned with the enterprise > > business processes, SOA can't fulfill the promise of business/IT > > alignment and support for flexible, process-driven enterprise. Without > > involvement of IT, implementing SOA ecosystem, supporting flexible > > service deployment, interactions, monitoring and management SOA can't > > fulfill the promise of scalable, maintainable IT.>> > > > > d) I DISagree with << Business needs drive the development of services > > delivered through IT, which provides the capability that satisfies > those > > needs. This is the business value of SOA.>> > > My proposal is: > > << Business needs to drive the development of services, which provides > > the capability that satisfies those needs. This is the business value > of > > SOA.>> > > or > > << Business needs to drive the development of services delivered > through > > Business and IT, which provides the capability that satisfies those > > needs. This is the business value of SOA.>> > > > > > > Regards, > > - Michael > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" To: "Mike Poulin" , "Lublinsky, > Boris" > > , rexb@starbourne.com > > > Cc: "Laskey, Ken" , soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:30:41 -0500 > > > > > > > > > Mike: > > > > > > > > > > > > We are trying to get to the same concept, but really what is being > > > discussed is a cultural paradigm shift. In my view, the execution > > > context is the technical context within which the service components > > > exist and within in which they are executed as enablers and support > > for > > > the process. The service components are the parts and subassemblies. > > > The process flow, which is part of the execution context, as defined > > by > > > the orchestration or choreography (both of which have business rules > > > engines to ensure that policies/standards/business rules/etc. are > > > followed). > > > > > > > > > > > > Business process modeling as instantiated by the assembled of the > SOA > > > service components, with the associated business rule, links the > > system > > > to the business processes. Provided that the business processes > serve > > > the goals or objectives or the business (that is provides value to > the > > > business) then the tools as instantiated in the SOA service > multiplies > > > the effectiveness of the process. > > > > > > > > > > > > The cultural shift involves the fact that when business challenges > or > > > opportunities arise, the business processes and SOA supporting > > services > > > can meet those challenge because SOA enable agile systems. I define > > > agility as "successful response to unexpected challenges and > > > opportunities." BTW, this is the definition of the Agility Forum > > (circa > > > 1990) associated with Lehigh University (that is Nagel and his group > > > that wrote the book on the agile enterprise). Currently, the > > monolithic > > > architecture of most ERP-like systems do not allow agility, while > > > functional architecture place emphasis on optimizing for the > function; > > > creating silos. There is an axiom in Systems Engineering that > > > optimizing the subsystems, sub-optimizes the system. SOA enables > both > > > optimization and agility of the system, but requires mapping of the > > > system to the organization's processes as the price > > > > > > > > > > > > I could and have said a great deal more, but I think that is enough. > > > The linkage is there for anyone to get the maximum value out of the > > SOA > > > and both the business processes and the composite applications > > (process > > > assembled service components???) or whatever operating in the > > execution > > > context, must enable and support the processes. As the processes > > change > > > in response to challenges and opportunities, both the processes and > > the > > > composite application must respond quickly and successfully. This is > > > not the way it is done now, and that is the cultural change that is > > > needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:18 PM > > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Lublinsky, Boris; rexb@starbourne.com > > > Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert, > > > > > > as we know SOA defines Execution Context. Since we never defined > what > > it > > > includes, I suggest (and promote this opinion) that EC includes > > Business > > > EC and Technical EC. Business services cannot be 'the environment of > > the > > > SOA Ecosystem' because it is included into SOA. Business EC defines > > > business execution policies and Technical EC defines technical > > execution > > > policies. SOA Ecosystem comprises both business and technical > realms. > > > > > > Phrase "while SOA services provide IT artifacts that facilitate > > > connectivity of functional units to realize and support the business > > > services."" has a problem because SOA service does not necessary > > > "facilitate connectivity of functional units". For instance,a > > > self-contained stand-alone business technical service realises its > own > > > business function or feature w/o joining with other "functional > > units". > > > Plus, SOA Service may or may not contain any IT artefacts. Time when > > SOA > > > was considered a pure technical thing is gone (and for good). > > > > > > I agree with you on "The value of IT is the same as any other tool". > > > This is why I think that statement " Business needs drive the > > > development of services delivered through IT, which provides the > > > capability that satisfies those needs. This is the business value of > > > SOA" requires corrections. Development of services is not necessary > > > delivered through IT, it may be purely manual business service and > > many > > > services of such nature exist. > > > > > > Based on my discussion in several Business Architecture groups on > the > > > Web, any business process in Business may be defined as business > > service > > > with or without technical component. Implementation of the business > > > service, as we know, is not that important for service-oriented > > > Architecture. > > > > > > If we state that SOA positions BETWEEN Business and IT, we MAY NOT > > > attribute it to IT only and confront it with the business service. > > This > > > is illogical. > > > > > > - Michael > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" > > > To: "Lublinsky, Boris" , rexb@starbourne.com > > > Cc: "Laskey, Ken" , mpoulin@usa.com, soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:19:49 -0500 > > > > > > > > > See below > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Lublinsky, Boris [mailto:boris.lublinsky@navteq.com] > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:58 AM > > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); rexb@starbourne.com; Lublinsky, Boris > > > Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > > > > > > I have no idea what this means: > > > > > > "The SOA Ecosystem described in this document must be understood in > > > terms of its support of business services, which is its > environment." > > > > > > What is which environment? > > > Business services are the environment of the SOA Ecosystem. > > > > > > Also: > > > " Business services provide business functionality in pursuit of > > > business outcome; while SOA services provide IT artifacts that > > > facilitate connectivity of functional units to realize and support > the > > > business services." > > > > > > SOA services is a complete misnomer. Infrastructure I can buy, but > SOA > > > services? > > > I disagree with that. The infrastructure provides nothing except an > > > operating context. Only when SOA Service (which in my understanding > is > > > a composite application with contractual obligations) provide any > > value > > > to the customer. > > > > > > And finally: > > > " Business needs drive the development of services delivered through > > IT, > > > which provides the capability that satisfies those needs. This is > the > > > business value of SOA." > > > > > > This has several problems: > > > 1. Business is concerned only with business services and drives > their > > > design, not development 2. What is the business value? What does > this > > > points to? > > > > > > My understanding of the term development is that it includes design, > > but > > > if you want to change it...The value of IT is the same as any other > > > tool, to multiple the value of the process. > > > Adam Smith pointed this out in Chapter 1 of Book 1 of the Wealth of > > > Nations. This is a point lost on IT as this comment demonstrates. > > > > > > I think we are digressing. > > > > > > I hope not. > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Ellinger, Robert S (IS) [mailto:robert.ellinger@ngc.com] > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:46 AM > > > To: rexb@starbourne.com; Lublinsky, Boris > > > Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > > > > > > Hi: > > > > > > Please try this edit. > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:34 AM > > > To: Lublinsky, Boris > > > Cc: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; > > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > > > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > > > > > > Very minor grammar correction, Boris, > > > > > > I'm just a nit picker. > > > > > > ;) > > > Rex > > > > > > Lublinsky, Boris wrote: > > > > I haven't seen people discussing my grammar so much lately. I am > > doing > > > > > > > something wrong sorry. > > > > I am fine with managing > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:07 AM > > > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS) > > > > Cc: Lublinsky, Boris; Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; > > > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > > > > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > > > > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > > > > > I'm being technically challenged at the moment with remote > > > participation > > > > > > > > in overlapping meetings the latter of which isn't starting > > and > > the former of which appears to have ended early while I > > dropped > > off to attend the latter.Sheseh! > > > > > > > > Here's how I would correct Boris's grammar with one > > word-substitution: > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > don't want the concept of "orchestration" being confused with the > > use > > > of > > > > > > > > "orchestrating" so I am changing that to "managing" which we don't > > > spend > > > > > > > > much attention on in the RAF yet .(I just want to avoid anyone > > asking > > > if > > > > > > > > we mean that "all business services must be delivered via > > > > orchestration."): > > > > > > > > Business drives the definition of business services aligned > > > with > enterprise business functionality and business processes, > > > > managing execution of these services, while IT defines > > > > infrastructure services, > > > > > > > providing support across a wide range of business services > > and > > implements both types of services. Such collaboration > > allows > > stronger communications between both, by creating > > one-to-one > > mapping between business and IT artifacts. > > > > > > > > Regardless, since it is clear that Bob did not actually pick > > up > > Boris's additions and so didn't drop them, and Ken had one > > more > > addition he was considering, could we ask Ken to correct > > > Boris's > grammar, fold in Bob's slight rewording and add his > > > piece? Then, > perhaps Jeff and/or Jim could make the crisp > > > differentiation > between business services and SOA services or > > > between business > services and IT > > > > > > > services > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Rex > > > > > > > > Ellinger, Robert S (IS) wrote: > > > > > > > >> Didn't intend to drop Boris's additions...must of missed > > them. > I >> thought we were to start from where you left off, so > > that is > >> what I > > > >> > > > > did. > > > > > > > >> Sorry Boris...Perhaps we were working concurrently and the > material > > > crossed. > > > >> > > > >> Bob > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] > > > >> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 1:10 AM > > > >> To: Lublinsky, Boris > > > >> Cc: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; > > >> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > > > >> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > > > >> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > > > >> > > > >> My task was to get the work rolling. I have minor quibbles with > > > >> > > > > correct > > > > > > > >> English grammar in Boris's additions, and I agree with Jeff > > > that >> the distinction between "business service' and "SOA > > > service" >> needs to be made. In general I think simpler is > > > better, but as >> long as the grammar is corrected, I'd be fine > > > with Boris's >> additions. I don't have any problems with Bob's > > > minor rewording, >> but i don't see why he dropped Boris's > > > additions.. > > > >> > > > >> I'll look at it again in the morning. > > > >> > > > >> Cheers, > > > >> Rex > > > >> > > > >> Lublinsky, Boris wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> You through away all changes that were suggested after this > > initial > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> one? > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > > >>> From: Ellinger, Robert S (IS) [mailto:robert.ellinger@ngc.com] > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:41 PM > > > >>> To: rexb@starbourne.com > > > >>> Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > > > >>> Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > > > >>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > > > >>> > > > >>> I'd recommend some minor rewording... -----Original Message----- > > > >>> From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 1:16 PM > > > >>> To: rexb@starbourne.com > > > >>> Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > > > >>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > > > >>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > > > >>> > > > >>> First pass at the Section 1.2 as an additional paragraph > > > after >>> the first paragraph. I include the first paragraph and > > > the >>> start of the current second paragraph here for the > > > context: > > > >>> > > > >>> 1.2 Service Oriented Archtecture - An Ecosystem Perspective > > > >>> > > > >>> Many systems cannot be understood by a simple decomposition into > > > >>> > > > > parts > > > > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> and subsystems -- in particular when there are many >>> > > > interactions between the parts. For example, a biological >>> > > > ecosystem is a self-sustaining association of plants, animals, > > > >>> and the hysical environment in which they live. Undestanding > > > an >>> ecosystem often requires a holistic perspective rather > > > than one >>> focusing on the > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> system's individual parts. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>> The SOA Ecosystem described in this document occupies the > > >>> > boundary between Business and IT. It is neither wholly IT > > nor >>> > wholly Business, > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> but is of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT completely own, > > > govern > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> and manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both sets of concerns must > > be > >>> accommodated for the SOA Ecosystem to fulfill its > > purposes. > >>> Business > > > > > > >>> needs drive the development of services delivered through > > IT, > >>> providing the capability that satisfies those needs. > > This is > >>> the business value of SOA. > > > >>> > > > >>> From a holistic perspective, a SOA-based system is a > > network > of >>> independent services, machines, the people who > > operate, > affect, >>> use and govern those services as well as > > ... > > > >>> > > > >>> Cheers, > > > >>> Rex > > > >>> > > > >>> Rex Brooks wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>> Hi Ken, Everyone, > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I believe that the email you are looking for is your reply to > > > Frank: > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/soa-rm-ra/email/archives > > > > > > > >>>> / > > > >>>> 200906/msg00012.html > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> This is what Frank Wrote Jun 14, 2009, at 7:12 PM: > > > >>>> > > > >>>> "I sympathize with the sentiment behind this. We have >>>> > > > consistently identified SOA as being at the boundary between > > >>>> > business and IT. It > > > > > > >>>> is > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>> neither wholly IT nor wholly business but is of both worlds. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> That represents potentially one of SOA's greatest > opportunities; > > > and > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> the source of its weaknesses: neither business nor IT can > > > completely > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> own/grok SOA. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Frank" > > > >>>> > > > >>>> The email referenced above contains the most or all of the > thread > > > "Are > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>> we being ignored?" > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I'm not sure we would help ourselves if we say more than > > > "The >>>> SOA Ecosystem described in this document occupies the > > > boundary >>>> between Business and IT. It is neither wholly IT > > > nor wholly >>>> Business, but is > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT completely own, > > > govern >>>> and manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both sets of concerns > > > MUST be > > > >>>> > > > > accommodated > > > > > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>> for the SOA Ecosystem to fulfill its purposes." > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Cheers, > > > >>>> Rex > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Laskey, Ken wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> This is a reminder that this week we are scheduled to discuss > > > >>>>> > > > > adding > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>>> the text on the overlap of SOA and business. Below is text > > > suggested > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>>> by Michael Poulin and there is another email from Boris with a > > lot > > > > > > >>>>> of > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>>> idea that would need to be condensed and > > > >>>>> > > > > added/substituted/combined. > > > > > > > >>>>> Let's get the discussion far enough along that we can bring > this > > > to > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> (close to) closure by the end of Wednesday's call. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> I remember there was an email where Frank wrote something very > > > >>>>> > > > > crisp > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>>> on this subject that I replied was exactly what we needed to > > say. > > > >>>>> Unfortunately, I have no idea when that email thread occurred. > > If > > > > > > >>>>> someone could find it, I think it would be a good contribution > > to > > > the > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>>> discussion. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Back to Mike's suggested text, two immediate things come to > > mind. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> 1. Section 1.4 is a discussion of the views and this is not a > > view > > > > > > >>>>> to > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>>> be added as 1.4.4. I think it fits after section 1.2, possibly > > as > > > > > > >>>>> another short section. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> 2. It is not obvious to me what the phrase "the > > similarity > of >>>>> the principles of the Value Networks > > business model" > means. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Ken > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > >>>>> - > > > >>>>> ------ > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Dr. Kenneth Laskey > > > >>>>> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 > > > >>>>> 7515 Colshire Drive fax: > > > > > > >>>>> 703-983-1379 > > > >>>>> McLean VA 22102-7508 > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > > > >>>>> From: mpoulin@usa.com [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] Sent: > > >>>>> > Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:31 AM > > > >>>>> To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org > > > >>>>> Subject: [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT > and > > > business > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Hi Folks, > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> I join Francis and Boris in suggestion that SOA RA's > > Introduction > > > > > > >>>>> would benefit from adding a couple of paragraphs on the > > > >>>>> business aspects of SOA positioned across Business and IT. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> In the previous message I composed a few words for a small > > section > > > > > > >>>>> on > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>>> this topic and propose to discuss them as an initial draft > > during > > > the > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>>> next (or following) Telecom. Proposed text may be found in the > > > middle > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>>> of this message chain. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Any suggestions? > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> - Michael > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > >>>>> - > > > >>>>> ----------- > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Subject: RE: todos for PR2 > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> From: mpoulin@usa.com To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org Date: > 8 > > > >>>>> > > > > Sep > > > > > > > >>>>> 2009 16:21:26 -0000 > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > >>>>> - > > > >>>>> ----------- > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> "positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business" is what > I > > > write > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>>> a lot for last few months. So, let me propose a strawman for > > this > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>> text: > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>>> 1.4.4 Business Value of the Service Oriented Architecture > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> A Service Oriented Architecture realizes principles of the > > concept > > > > > > >>>>> of > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>>> service orientation in the sphere of architecture. The > > > architecture > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> in the organisation comprises both business architecture > > > and >>>>> technical architecture of the systems [ref. to TOGAF > > > 9.0]. >>>>> While SOA-based systems address aspects of the > > > technical >>>>> architecture, > > > >>>>> > > > > the > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>>> similarity of the principles of the Value Networks business > > model > > > and > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>>> SOA allows us to see SOA as a conceptual bridge between > > > >>>>> corporate Business and IT. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Noticed similarity opens up new possibilities for Business and > > IT > > > >>>>> > > > > to > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>>> construct service-oriented customer-centric convergent > solutions > > > >>>>> > > > > for > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>>> business problems. Service orientation enables > > operational > >>>>> and technical flexibility, which contributes > > to business > >>>>> efficiency the > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> great deal. The Service Orientation concept has the > > > potential >>>>> not only to align IT with Business, but also to > > > align the >>>>> entire > > > >>>>> > > > > company > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>>> with the market dynamics. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> If the ideas in this writing are acceptable, I will work on > the > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>> wording. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>>> - Michael Poulin > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > >>>>> - > > > >>>>> ----------- > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> From: Francis McCabe To: "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org RA" > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:24:08 -0700 > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > >>>>> - > > > >>>>> ----------- > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> 1. As Boris alluded to, I think that a paragraph or two > > in > >>>>> the introduction positioning SOA on the cusp between > > IT and > >>>>> business could be very useful. It is also pretty > > faithful > to >>>>> the RAF! > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> 2. The concept of interaction in the RM referred > > > *everything* >>>>> involved in interacting with services. For the > > > RA we have to > > > >>>>> > > > > unpack > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>>>> that some. This is the foundation for the multi-leveled > concept > > of > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> joint action. This should go in Section 3.1. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> 3. I think that Danny's security diagram should be > > updated > >>>>> and incorporated. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> 4. The trust and willingness stuff should go in. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> 5. It would be good if we could go through the text bolding > > > defined > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> concepts. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > >>>>> - > > > >>>>> ----------- > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > >>>>> - > > > >>>>> ----------- > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> [Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- > > [Date > > > > > > >>>>> Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home] > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> -- > > > >>> Rex Brooks > > > >>> President, CEO > > > >>> Starbourne Communications Design > > > >>> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison > > > >>> Berkeley, CA 94702 > > > >>> Tel: 510-898-0670 > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> - To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the > > > OASIS >>> TC that generates this mail. 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