[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]
Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: [soa-rm-ra]p ositioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
I wasn't asserting that, so excuse me if I don't attempt to defend it . Cheers, Rex Lublinsky, Boris wrote: > If the services are not composable, then how are they better compared to existing applications > > --- original message --- > From: "Rex Brooks" <rexb@starbourne.com> > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > Date: September 25, 2009 > Time: 4:41:26 PM > > Duane, I'm picturing you tugging on Superman's cape, while spittin' into > the wind, tilting at windmills and messin' with Bad Bad LeRoy Brown, > while sliding into heaven sideways, brew in hand singing, "What a Ride!" > > You're right, and so is Frank, and I definitely prefer "aggregate-able > or capable of being included in various types of aggregations,"... > > but I think the boat already left, folks. We don't have to catch up with > it nor need we catch the next one. It will go as it will. > > I personally don't have strong enough feelings about it to be road kill > for it or against it. I happen to be involved in a set of SOA services > that absolutely MUST be composable, but I am satisfied that they will be > regardless of how this sentence in theSOA-RAF introduction is worded. > > It makes it marginally easier for me to get the business audiences I > deal with to act right if "composable" services is something I can point > to when or if we get people insisting on something really dumb, like > "Point-to-Point" is the only distribution protocol that counts," or "we > can use the rules for RSS Feeds for all distribution." I suppose its not > impossible, but I don't really expect to see it. > > BTW, I don't read the sentence to mean that ALL independent services > MUST also be composable. It means " a network of independent services > and/or composable services." I think independent composable services is > almost a contradiction of terms or almost an oxymoron. > > Cheers, > Rex > > Duane Nickull wrote: > >> My take on this: >> >> http://technoracle.blogspot.com/2007/09/soa-anti-patterns-service-composition.html >> >> D >> >> >> On 9/25/09 1:21 PM, "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com> wrote: >> >> I do not have any strong objections. >> >> 'Composable' means to me that the service may be composed; the >> question is - composed by what and how this corresponds to >> 'independent'? 'Composite' or 'aggregate' (as Ken pointed once) is >> the service, which is composed already by other services, which >> comprises other services, i.e. it is not independent. This is what >> I tried to "EmFasis" :-) >> >> You, folks, decide. >> >> - Michael >> >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" <robert.ellinger@ngc.com> >> > To: "Lublinsky, Boris" <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>, "Mike >> Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>, soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >> > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: >> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] >> > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:01:34 -0500 >> > >> > >> > Mike, I like the sentence. Boris, I think that "composable >> services" is >> > the correct term. I've heard many "experts" and "gurus" use the term >> > and concept since at least 2003 and seems to me to put the >> "EmFasis on >> > the rite Silobbal", as my dad would say. >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Lublinsky, Boris [mailto:boris.lublinsky@navteq.com] >> > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 3:50 PM >> > To: Mike Poulin; Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Lublinsky, Boris; >> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >> > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: >> > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] >> > >> > Composable? >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] >> > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 2:27 PM >> > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Mike Poulin; Lublinsky, Boris; >> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >> > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: >> > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] >> > >> > Bob, >> > this is the phrase: >> > >> > From a holistic perspective, a SOA-based system is a network of >> > independent services, machines, the people who operate, affect, >> use and >> > govern those services as well as ... >> > >> > >> > I propose to say: "...a network of independent and composite >> services, >> > machines, the..." >> > >> > - Michael >> > >> > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" <robert.ellinger@ngc.com> >> > > To: "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>, "Lublinsky, Boris" >> > <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>, soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >> > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: >> > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] >> > > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:40:28 -0500 >> > > >> > > >> > > There was one sentence that you sent that I could not make head or >> > tail >> > > of as I noted. Otherwise, I thought I had incorporated all of your >> > > comments >> > > >> > > Bob >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] >> > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:31 PM >> > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Mike Poulin; Lublinsky, Boris; >> > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >> > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: >> > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] >> > > >> > > I am afraid, I am lost. I do not see some of the crucial changes I >> > > advocated for and you agreed to accommodate: >> > > >> > > >> > > "The SOA Ecosystem described in this document must be understood in >> > > terms of its support of business services." >> > > - MP - great! >> > > >> > > "Business services provide business functionality in pursuit of >> > business >> > > outcome; while SOA services provide IT artifacts that facilitate >> > > connectivity of functional units to realize and support the >> business >> > > services." >> > > - MP - my proposal: 'Business services provide business >> functionality >> > in >> > > pursuit of the business outcome; while IT artifacts facilitate >> > > connectivity of functional units to realize and support the >> business >> > > services.' >> > > >> > > "Therefore, SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly Business, but is of >> > both >> > > worlds." >> > > - MP - great! You commented: 'This doesn't make sense to me. It >> is not >> > > connected to SOA in anyway' but left the statement. I am for having >> > this >> > > statement as it is (it is not my text but very right one IMO) >> > > >> > > "Neither Business nor IT completely own, govern, and manage >> this SOA >> > > Ecosystem. The SOA Ecosystem must accommodate both sets of concerns >> > for >> > > to fulfill its purpose and potential." >> > > - MP - great! >> > > >> > > "Business needs to drive the development of services delivered >> through >> > > processes and its supporting IT, which provides the capability that >> > > satisfies those needs. This is the business value of SOA." >> > > - MP - development of services is not necessary delivered through >> > > processes and supporting IT. This is why my proposal is: >> > > 'Business needs to drive the development of services, which >> provides >> > > the capability that satisfies those needs. This is the business >> value >> > of >> > > SOA.' >> > > or >> > > 'Business needs to drive the development of services delivered >> > through >> > > Business and IT, which provides the capability that satisfies those >> > > needs. This is the business value of SOA.' >> > > >> > > (i.e. none Business or IT , or both; SOA is in between them) >> > > >> > > >> > > Thus, my variant of the text looks like this: >> > > >> > > The SOA Ecosystem described in this document must be understood in >> > terms >> > > of its support of business services. Business services provide >> > business >> > > functionality in pursuit of the business outcome; while IT >> artifacts >> > > facilitate connectivity of functional units to realize and >> support the >> > > business services. Therefore, SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly >> > > Business, but is of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT completely >> > own, >> > > govern, and manage this SOA Ecosystem. The SOA Ecosystem must >> > > accommodate both sets of concerns for to fulfill its purpose and >> > > potential. Business needs to drive the development of services, >> which >> > > provides the capability that satisfies those needs. This is the >> > business >> > > value of SOA. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > - Michael >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" <robert.ellinger@ngc.com> >> > > > To: "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>, "Lublinsky, Boris" >> > > <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>, soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >> > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: >> > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] >> > > > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:56:23 -0500 >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Try this. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Bob >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] >> > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:31 AM >> > > > To: Lublinsky, Boris; Mike Poulin; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >> > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: >> > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Boris has reminded me one thing: in the paragraph following >> the two >> > > > paragraphs we are discussing now we say something like 'SOA is a >> > > network >> > > > of independent services...' I would modify this phrase a bit >> saying >> > > > something like 'SOA is a network of independent and composite >> > > > services...' >> > > > >> > > > Sorry, I did not mention this earlier. >> > > > >> > > > This is all what I wanted to say about SOA and Buz. >> > > > >> > > > - Michael >> > > > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > > From: "Lublinsky, Boris" >> > > > To: "Mike Poulin" , soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >> > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: >> > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] >> > > > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:04:35 -0500 >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > I tend to agree with Mike/jeff >> > > > See below >> > > > >> > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] >> > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:15 AM >> > > > To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >> > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: >> > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] >> > > > Importance: High >> > > > >> > > > I believe service orientation has the enormous potential to >> become >> > the >> > > > basic business operational model and SOA will be the basis of the >> > > > Business Architecture. >> > > > >> > > > Since we do not have time for this discussion now, let's >> return to >> > our >> > > > text. >> > > > >> > > > B.L. Moreover, as I re read the text I am realizing more and more >> > that >> > > > this is not so much about SOA but mostly about ESB. I am of >> course >> > > over >> > > > simplifying, but hopefully you got the jest. We managed to >> leap frog >> > > > business architecture and servicizing the enterprise and jump >> > directly >> > > > into the issues of service interaction - ecosystem. This is fine, >> > but >> > > > who is going to live in this wonderful ecosystem. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > The only thing I hope to set in the RA standard is an open >> door to >> > the >> > > > Business opportunity of SOA instead of locking it in IT. >> > > > >> > > > This means I vote for enough 'ambiguity' in the text that would >> > allow >> > > > anybody to go with SOA in both - technical and business - >> > directions, >> > > if >> > > > needed. >> > > > >> > > > B.L. Fair enough. Lets create the door, but may be, just may >> be open >> > > it >> > > > up slightly for the next review. This is why I think, the >> text under >> > > > discussion, does not belong in the ecosystem, but rather >> above it. >> > We >> > > > talk about business/IT alignment and then define ecosystem >> > > > >> > > > The following is my modifications to the text that together >> aim only >> > > one >> > > > statement: "SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly Business, but >> is of >> > > both >> > > > worlds." Particularly: >> > > > >> > > > a) I agree in full with: >> > > > < >> > > > components and subsystems. They must be understood within their >> > > context >> > > > or environment; particularly, when there are many >> interactions among >> > > the >> > > > parts. For example, a biological ecosystem is a self-sustaining >> > > > association of plants, animals, and the physical environment in >> > which >> > > > they live. Understanding an ecosystem often requires this >> holistic >> > > > perspective of the system and its environment rather than one >> > focusing >> > > > on the system's individual parts.>> >> > > > >> > > > b) I DISagree with << The SOA Ecosystem described in this >> document >> > > must >> > > > be understood in terms of its support of business services, >> which is >> > > its >> > > > environment.>> >> > > > My proposal is this: >> > > > << The SOA Ecosystem described in this document must be >> understood >> > in >> > > > terms of its support of business services.>> >> > > > >> > > > B.L. See comment above >> > > > >> > > > c) I DISagree with << Business services provide business >> > functionality >> > > > in pursuit of the business outcome; while SOA services provide IT >> > > > artifacts that facilitate connectivity of functional units to >> > realize >> > > > and support the business services. Therefore, SOA is neither >> wholly >> > IT >> > > > nor wholly Business, but is of both worlds. >> >> > > > My proposal is this: >> > > > < >> > > > outcome, together with its technical realization and support >> > provided >> > > by >> > > > Information Technology. Therefore, SOA is neither wholly IT nor >> > wholly >> > > > Business, but is of both worlds.>> >> > > > >> > > > B.L. How about: >> > > > << SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly Business, but is of both >> > > worlds. >> > > > Without involvement of the business, defining service >> functionality >> > > > based on the enterprise business model and aligned with the >> > enterprise >> > > > business processes, SOA can't fulfill the promise of business/IT >> > > > alignment and support for flexible, process-driven enterprise. >> > Without >> > > > involvement of IT, implementing SOA ecosystem, supporting >> flexible >> > > > service deployment, interactions, monitoring and management SOA >> > can't >> > > > fulfill the promise of scalable, maintainable IT.>> >> > > > >> > > > d) I DISagree with << Business needs drive the development of >> > services >> > > > delivered through IT, which provides the capability that >> satisfies >> > > those >> > > > needs. This is the business value of SOA.>> >> > > > My proposal is: >> > > > << Business needs to drive the development of services, which >> > provides >> > > > the capability that satisfies those needs. This is the business >> > value >> > > of >> > > > SOA.>> >> > > > or >> > > > << Business needs to drive the development of services delivered >> > > through >> > > > Business and IT, which provides the capability that satisfies >> those >> > > > needs. This is the business value of SOA.>> >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Regards, >> > > > - Michael >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" To: "Mike Poulin" , "Lublinsky, >> > > Boris" >> > > > , rexb@starbourne.com >> > > > > Cc: "Laskey, Ken" , soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >> > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: >> > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] >> > > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:30:41 -0500 >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Mike: >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > We are trying to get to the same concept, but really what >> is being >> > > > > discussed is a cultural paradigm shift. In my view, the >> execution >> > > > > context is the technical context within which the service >> > components >> > > > > exist and within in which they are executed as enablers and >> > support >> > > > for >> > > > > the process. The service components are the parts and >> > subassemblies. >> > > > > The process flow, which is part of the execution context, as >> > defined >> > > > by >> > > > > the orchestration or choreography (both of which have business >> > rules >> > > > > engines to ensure that policies/standards/business >> rules/etc. are >> > > > > followed). >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Business process modeling as instantiated by the assembled >> of the >> > > SOA >> > > > > service components, with the associated business rule, >> links the >> > > > system >> > > > > to the business processes. Provided that the business processes >> > > serve >> > > > > the goals or objectives or the business (that is provides >> value to >> > > the >> > > > > business) then the tools as instantiated in the SOA service >> > > multiplies >> > > > > the effectiveness of the process. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > The cultural shift involves the fact that when business >> challenges >> > > or >> > > > > opportunities arise, the business processes and SOA supporting >> > > > services >> > > > > can meet those challenge because SOA enable agile systems. I >> > define >> > > > > agility as "successful response to unexpected challenges and >> > > > > opportunities." BTW, this is the definition of the Agility >> Forum >> > > > (circa >> > > > > 1990) associated with Lehigh University (that is Nagel and his >> > group >> > > > > that wrote the book on the agile enterprise). Currently, the >> > > > monolithic >> > > > > architecture of most ERP-like systems do not allow agility, >> while >> > > > > functional architecture place emphasis on optimizing for the >> > > function; >> > > > > creating silos. There is an axiom in Systems Engineering that >> > > > > optimizing the subsystems, sub-optimizes the system. SOA >> enables >> > > both >> > > > > optimization and agility of the system, but requires mapping of >> > the >> > > > > system to the organization's processes as the price >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > I could and have said a great deal more, but I think that is >> > enough. >> > > > > The linkage is there for anyone to get the maximum value out of >> > the >> > > > SOA >> > > > > and both the business processes and the composite applications >> > > > (process >> > > > > assembled service components???) or whatever operating in the >> > > > execution >> > > > > context, must enable and support the processes. As the >> processes >> > > > change >> > > > > in response to challenges and opportunities, both the processes >> > and >> > > > the >> > > > > composite application must respond quickly and >> successfully. This >> > is >> > > > > not the way it is done now, and that is the cultural change >> that >> > is >> > > > > needed. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] >> > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:18 PM >> > > > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Lublinsky, Boris; >> rexb@starbourne.com >> > > > > Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; >> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >> > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: >> > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and >> business] >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Robert, >> > > > > >> > > > > as we know SOA defines Execution Context. Since we never >> defined >> > > what >> > > > it >> > > > > includes, I suggest (and promote this opinion) that EC includes >> > > > Business >> > > > > EC and Technical EC. Business services cannot be 'the >> environment >> > of >> > > > the >> > > > > SOA Ecosystem' because it is included into SOA. Business EC >> > defines >> > > > > business execution policies and Technical EC defines technical >> > > > execution >> > > > > policies. SOA Ecosystem comprises both business and technical >> > > realms. >> > > > > >> > > > > Phrase "while SOA services provide IT artifacts that facilitate >> > > > > connectivity of functional units to realize and support the >> > business >> > > > > services."" has a problem because SOA service does not >> necessary >> > > > > "facilitate connectivity of functional units". For instance,a >> > > > > self-contained stand-alone business technical service >> realises its >> > > own >> > > > > business function or feature w/o joining with other "functional >> > > > units". >> > > > > Plus, SOA Service may or may not contain any IT artefacts. Time >> > when >> > > > SOA >> > > > > was considered a pure technical thing is gone (and for good). >> > > > > >> > > > > I agree with you on "The value of IT is the same as any other >> > tool". >> > > > > This is why I think that statement " Business needs drive the >> > > > > development of services delivered through IT, which >> provides the >> > > > > capability that satisfies those needs. This is the business >> value >> > of >> > > > > SOA" requires corrections. Development of services is not >> > necessary >> > > > > delivered through IT, it may be purely manual business >> service and >> > > > many >> > > > > services of such nature exist. >> > > > > >> > > > > Based on my discussion in several Business Architecture >> groups on >> > > the >> > > > > Web, any business process in Business may be defined as >> business >> > > > service >> > > > > with or without technical component. Implementation of the >> > business >> > > > > service, as we know, is not that important for service-oriented >> > > > > Architecture. >> > > > > >> > > > > If we state that SOA positions BETWEEN Business and IT, we >> MAY NOT >> > > > > attribute it to IT only and confront it with the business >> service. >> > > > This >> > > > > is illogical. >> > > > > >> > > > > - Michael >> > > > > >> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" >> > > > > To: "Lublinsky, Boris" , rexb@starbourne.com >> > > > > Cc: "Laskey, Ken" , mpoulin@usa.com, >> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >> > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: >> > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and >> business] >> > > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:19:49 -0500 >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > See below >> > > > > >> > > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > > From: Lublinsky, Boris [mailto:boris.lublinsky@navteq.com] >> > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:58 AM >> > > > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); rexb@starbourne.com; >> Lublinsky, Boris >> > > > > Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; >> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >> > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: >> > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and >> business] >> > > > > >> > > > > I have no idea what this means: >> > > > > >> > > > > "The SOA Ecosystem described in this document must be >> understood >> > in >> > > > > terms of its support of business services, which is its >> > > environment." >> > > > > >> > > > > What is which environment? >> > > > > Business services are the environment of the SOA Ecosystem. >> > > > > >> > > > > Also: >> > > > > " Business services provide business functionality in >> pursuit of >> > > > > business outcome; while SOA services provide IT artifacts that >> > > > > facilitate connectivity of functional units to realize and >> support >> > > the >> > > > > business services." >> > > > > >> > > > > SOA services is a complete misnomer. Infrastructure I can >> buy, but >> > > SOA >> > > > > services? >> > > > > I disagree with that. The infrastructure provides nothing >> except >> > an >> > > > > operating context. Only when SOA Service (which in my >> > understanding >> > > is >> > > > > a composite application with contractual obligations) >> provide any >> > > > value >> > > > > to the customer. >> > > > > >> > > > > And finally: >> > > > > " Business needs drive the development of services delivered >> > through >> > > > IT, >> > > > > which provides the capability that satisfies those needs. >> This is >> > > the >> > > > > business value of SOA." >> > > > > >> > > > > This has several problems: >> > > > > 1. Business is concerned only with business services and drives >> > > their >> > > > > design, not development 2. What is the business value? What >> does >> > > this >> > > > > points to? >> > > > > >> > > > > My understanding of the term development is that it includes >> > design, >> > > > but >> > > > > if you want to change it...The value of IT is the same as any >> > other >> > > > > tool, to multiple the value of the process. >> > > > > Adam Smith pointed this out in Chapter 1 of Book 1 of the >> Wealth >> > of >> > > > > Nations. This is a point lost on IT as this comment >> demonstrates. >> > > > > >> > > > > I think we are digressing. >> > > > > >> > > > > I hope not. >> > > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > > From: Ellinger, Robert S (IS) [mailto:robert.ellinger@ngc.com] >> > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:46 AM >> > > > > To: rexb@starbourne.com; Lublinsky, Boris >> > > > > Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; >> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >> > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: >> > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and >> business] >> > > > > >> > > > > Hi: >> > > > > >> > > > > Please try this edit. >> > > > > >> > > > > Bob >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > > From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] >> > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:34 AM >> > > > > To: Lublinsky, Boris >> > > > > Cc: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; >> > > > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >> > > > > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: >> > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and >> business] >> > > > > >> > > > > Very minor grammar correction, Boris, >> > > > > >> > > > > I'm just a nit picker. >> > > > > >> > > > > ;) >> > > > > Rex >> > > > > >> > > > > Lublinsky, Boris wrote: >> > > > > > I haven't seen people discussing my grammar so much >> lately. I am >> > > > doing >> > > > > >> > > > > > something wrong sorry. >> > > > > > I am fine with managing >> > > > > > >> > > > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > > > From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] >> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:07 AM >> > > > > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS) >> > > > > > Cc: Lublinsky, Boris; Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; > > > >> > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >> > > > > > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: >> > > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and >> business] >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Hi Folks, >> > > > > > >> > > > > > I'm being technically challenged at the moment with remote >> > > > > participation >> > > > > > >> > > > > > in overlapping meetings the latter of which isn't starting >> > > > and > > the former of which appears to have ended early while I >> > > > dropped > > off to attend the latter.Sheseh! >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Here's how I would correct Boris's grammar with one >> > > > word-substitution: >> > > > > >> > > > > > I >> > > > > > >> > > > > > don't want the concept of "orchestration" being confused with >> > the >> > > > use >> > > > > of >> > > > > > >> > > > > > "orchestrating" so I am changing that to "managing" which we >> > don't >> > > > > spend >> > > > > > >> > > > > > much attention on in the RAF yet .(I just want to avoid >> anyone >> > > > asking >> > > > > if >> > > > > > >> > > > > > we mean that "all business services must be delivered via >> > > > > > orchestration."): >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Business drives the definition of business services aligned >> > > > > with > enterprise business functionality and business >> > > processes, > > > managing execution of these services, while IT >> > > defines > > > infrastructure services, >> > > > > >> > > > > > providing support across a wide range of business services >> > > > and > > implements both types of services. Such collaboration > >> > > allows > > stronger communications between both, by creating > >> > > one-to-one > > mapping between business and IT artifacts. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Regardless, since it is clear that Bob did not actually >> > > pick > up > > Boris's additions and so didn't drop them, and Ken >> > > had one > more > > addition he was considering, could we ask Ken >> > > to correct > > Boris's > grammar, fold in Bob's slight rewording >> > > and add his > > piece? Then, > perhaps Jeff and/or Jim could make >> > > the crisp > > differentiation > between business services and SOA >> > > services or > > between business > services and IT >> > > > > >> > > > > > services >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Cheers, >> > > > > > Rex >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Ellinger, Robert S (IS) wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> Didn't intend to drop Boris's additions...must of missed > >> > > them. > I >> thought we were to start from where you left off, so >> > > > that is > >> what I >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > did. >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> Sorry Boris...Perhaps we were working concurrently and the >> > > material >> > > > > crossed. >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> Bob >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> > > > > >> From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] >> > > > > >> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 1:10 AM >> > > > > >> To: Lublinsky, Boris >> > > > > >> Cc: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; >> > > > >> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >> > > > > >> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday >> [was: >> > > > > >> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and >> > business] >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> My task was to get the work rolling. I have minor >> quibbles with >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > correct >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> English grammar in Boris's additions, and I agree with >> > > Jeff > > that >> the distinction between "business service' and >> > > "SOA > > service" >> needs to be made. In general I think simpler >> > > is > > better, but as >> long as the grammar is corrected, I'd be >> > > fine > > with Boris's >> additions. I don't have any problems >> > > with Bob's > > minor rewording, >> but i don't see why he dropped >> > > Boris's > > additions.. >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> I'll look at it again in the morning. >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> Cheers, >> > > > > >> Rex >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> Lublinsky, Boris wrote: >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >>> You through away all changes that were suggested after this >> > > > initial >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >> one? >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >>> -----Original Message----- >> > > > > >>> From: Ellinger, Robert S (IS) >> [mailto:robert.ellinger@ngc.com] >> > > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:41 PM >> > > > > >>> To: rexb@starbourne.com >> > > > > >>> Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; >> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >> > > > > >>> Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday >> [was: >> > > > > >>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and >> > business] >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> I'd recommend some minor rewording... -----Original >> > Message----- >> > > > > >>> From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] >> > > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 1:16 PM >> > > > > >>> To: rexb@starbourne.com >> > > > > >>> Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; >> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >> > > > > >>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday >> [was: >> > > > > >>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and >> > business] >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> First pass at the Section 1.2 as an additional paragraph >> > > > > after >>> the first paragraph. I include the first paragraph >> > > and > > the >>> start of the current second paragraph here for >> > > the > > context: >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> 1.2 Service Oriented Archtecture - An Ecosystem Perspective >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> Many systems cannot be understood by a simple decomposition >> > into >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > > parts >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >>> and subsystems -- in particular when there are many >>> > >> > > > interactions between the parts. For example, a biological >>> > >> > > > ecosystem is a self-sustaining association of plants, animals, >> > > > > >>> and the hysical environment in which they live. >> > > Undestanding > > an >>> ecosystem often requires a holistic >> > > perspective rather > > than one >>> focusing on the >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >> system's individual parts. >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >>> The SOA Ecosystem described in this document occupies the >> > > > >>> > boundary between Business and IT. It is neither wholly IT >> > > > nor >>> > wholly Business, >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>> but is of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT >> completely own, >> > > > > govern >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>> and manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both sets of concerns must >> > > > be > >>> accommodated for the SOA Ecosystem to fulfill its > >> > > purposes. > >>> Business >> > > > > >> > > > > >>> needs drive the development of services delivered through >> > > > IT, > >>> providing the capability that satisfies those needs. >> > > > This is > >>> the business value of SOA. >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> From a holistic perspective, a SOA-based system is a > >> > > network > of >>> independent services, machines, the people who > >> > > operate, > affect, >>> use and govern those services as well as > >> > > ... >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> Cheers, >> > > > > >>> Rex >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> Rex Brooks wrote: >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>>> Hi Ken, Everyone, >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> I believe that the email you are looking for is your >> reply to >> > > > > Frank: >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/soa-rm-ra/email/archives >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>> / >> > > > > >>>> 200906/msg00012.html >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> This is what Frank Wrote Jun 14, 2009, at 7:12 PM: >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> "I sympathize with the sentiment behind this. We have >> > > >>>> > > consistently identified SOA as being at the boundary >> > > between > >>>> > business and IT. It >> > > > > >> > > > > >>>> is >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>>> neither wholly IT nor wholly business but is of both >> worlds. >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> That represents potentially one of SOA's greatest >> > > opportunities; >> > > > > and >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>> the source of its weaknesses: neither business nor IT can >> > > > > completely >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>> own/grok SOA. >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> Frank" >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> The email referenced above contains the most or all of the >> > > thread >> > > > > "Are >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>>> we being ignored?" >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> I'm not sure we would help ourselves if we say more than >> > > > > "The >>>> SOA Ecosystem described in this document occupies >> > > the > > boundary >>>> between Business and IT. It is neither >> > > wholly IT > > nor wholly >>>> Business, but is >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>> of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT completely own, >> > > > > govern >>>> and manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both sets of >> > > concerns > > MUST be >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > > accommodated >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >>>> for the SOA Ecosystem to fulfill its purposes." >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> Cheers, >> > > > > >>>> Rex >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> Laskey, Ken wrote: >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>>> This is a reminder that this week we are scheduled to >> > discuss >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > adding >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >>>>> the text on the overlap of SOA and business. Below is >> text >> > > > > suggested >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>>>> by Michael Poulin and there is another email from >> Boris with >> > a >> > > > lot >> > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> of >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>>>> idea that would need to be condensed and >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > added/substituted/combined. >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> Let's get the discussion far enough along that we can >> bring >> > > this >> > > > > to >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> (close to) closure by the end of Wednesday's call. >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> I remember there was an email where Frank wrote something >> > very >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > crisp >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >>>>> on this subject that I replied was exactly what we >> needed to >> > > > say. >> > > > > >>>>> Unfortunately, I have no idea when that email thread >> > occurred. >> > > > If >> > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> someone could find it, I think it would be a good >> > contribution >> > > > to >> > > > > the >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>>>> discussion. >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> Back to Mike's suggested text, two immediate things >> come to >> > > > mind. >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> 1. Section 1.4 is a discussion of the views and this >> is not >> > a >> > > > view >> > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> to >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>>>> be added as 1.4.4. I think it fits after section 1.2, >> > possibly >> > > > as >> > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> another short section. >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> 2. It is not obvious to me what the phrase "the > >> > > similarity > of >>>>> the principles of the Value Networks > >> > > business model" > means. >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> Ken >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >> > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> - >> > > > > >>>>> ------ >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> Dr. Kenneth Laskey >> > > > > >>>>> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 >> > > > > >>>>> 7515 Colshire Drive fax: >> > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> 703-983-1379 >> > > > > >>>>> McLean VA 22102-7508 >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> > > > > >>>>> From: mpoulin@usa.com [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] Sent: > >> > > >>>>> > Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:31 AM >> > > > > >>>>> To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >> > > > > >>>>> Subject: [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp >> between IT >> > > and >> > > > > business >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> Hi Folks, >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> I join Francis and Boris in suggestion that SOA RA's >> > > > Introduction >> > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> would benefit from adding a couple of paragraphs on the >> > > > > >>>>> business aspects of SOA positioned across Business and >> > > IT. >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> In the previous message I composed a few words for a >> small >> > > > section >> > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> on >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>>>> this topic and propose to discuss them as an initial >> draft >> > > > during >> > > > > the >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>>>> next (or following) Telecom. Proposed text may be >> found in >> > the >> > > > > middle >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>>>> of this message chain. >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> Any suggestions? >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> - Michael >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >> > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> - >> > > > > >>>>> ----------- >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> Subject: RE: todos for PR2 >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> From: mpoulin@usa.com To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >> > Date: >> > > 8 >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > Sep >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> 2009 16:21:26 -0000 >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >> > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> - >> > > > > >>>>> ----------- >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> "positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business" is >> > what >> > > I >> > > > > write >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>>>> a lot for last few months. So, let me propose a >> strawman for >> > > > this >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>> text: >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>>>> 1.4.4 Business Value of the Service Oriented Architecture >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> A Service Oriented Architecture realizes principles >> of the >> > > > concept >> > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> of >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>>>> service orientation in the sphere of architecture. The >> > > > > architecture >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> in the organisation comprises both business >> > > architecture > > and >>>>> technical architecture of the systems >> > > [ref. to TOGAF > > 9.0]. >>>>> While SOA-based systems address >> > > aspects of the > > technical >>>>> architecture, >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > the >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >>>>> similarity of the principles of the Value Networks >> business >> > > > model >> > > > > and >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>>>> SOA allows us to see SOA as a conceptual bridge between >> > > > > >>>>> corporate Business and IT. >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> Noticed similarity opens up new possibilities for >> Business >> > and >> > > > IT >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > to >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >>>>> construct service-oriented customer-centric convergent >> > > solutions >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > for >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >>>>> business problems. Service orientation enables > >> > > operational > >>>>> and technical flexibility, which contributes >> > > > to business > >>>>> efficiency the >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> great deal. The Service Orientation concept has the > > >> > > potential >>>>> not only to align IT with Business, but also to > >> > > > align the >>>>> entire >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > company >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >>>>> with the market dynamics. >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> If the ideas in this writing are acceptable, I will >> work on >> > > the >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>> wording. >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>>>> - Michael Poulin >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >> > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> - >> > > > > >>>>> ----------- >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> From: Francis McCabe To: >> "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org RA" >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:24:08 -0700 >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >> > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> - >> > > > > >>>>> ----------- >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> 1. As Boris alluded to, I think that a paragraph or two >> > > > in > >>>>> the introduction positioning SOA on the cusp between >> > > > IT and > >>>>> business could be very useful. It is also pretty >> > > > faithful > to >>>>> the RAF! >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> 2. The concept of interaction in the RM referred > > >> > > *everything* >>>>> involved in interacting with services. For the >> > > > > RA we have to >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > unpack >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >>>>> that some. This is the foundation for the multi-leveled >> > > concept >> > > > of >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> joint action. This should go in Section 3.1. >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> 3. I think that Danny's security diagram should be > >> > > updated > >>>>> and incorporated. >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> 4. The trust and willingness stuff should go in. >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> 5. It would be good if we could go through the text >> bolding >> > > > > defined >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> concepts. >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >> > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> - >> > > > > >>>>> ----------- >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > > >> > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> - >> > > > > >>>>> ----------- >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> [Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date >> Next] -- >> > > > [Date >> > > > > >> > > > > >>>>> Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home] >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>>> >> > > > > >>> -- >> > > > > >>> Rex Brooks >> > > > > >>> President, CEO >> > > > > >>> Starbourne Communications Design >> > > > > >>> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison >> > > > > >>> Berkeley, CA 94702 >> > > > > >>> Tel: 510-898-0670 >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > > >>> - To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the >> > > > > OASIS >>> TC that generates this mail. Follow this link to >> > > all > > your TCs >>> in OASIS >> > > > > >> > > > > >>> at: >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >> > > > > > >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> The information contained in this communication may be >> > > > CONFIDENTIAL >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >> and is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named >> > above. >> > > > If >> > > > > >> > > > > >> you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby >> > > notified > > that >> any dissemination, distribution, or copying >> > > of this >> > > communication, or any >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > of >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have received >> > > > > this >> communication in error, please notify the sender and >> > > >> > > delete/destroy >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > the >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> original message and any copy of it from your computer >> or paper >> > > > > files. >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >>> >> > > > > >> -- >> > > > > >> Rex Brooks >> > > > > >> President, CEO >> > > > > >> Starbourne Communications Design >> > > > > >> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison >> > > > > >> Berkeley, CA 94702 >> > > > > >> Tel: 510-898-0670 >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > > >> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the >> > > OASIS > > TC >> that generates this mail. Follow this link to all >> > > your > TCs > in >> OASIS at: >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.ph >> > > > > >> p >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -- >> > > > > Rex Brooks >> > > > > President, CEO >> > > > > Starbourne Communications Design >> > > > > GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison >> > > > > Berkeley, CA 94702 >> > > > > Tel: 510-898-0670 >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > The information contained in this communication may be >> > CONFIDENTIAL >> > > > and >> > > > > is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named >> above. If >> > you >> > > > > are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified >> that any >> > > > > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this >> communication, or >> > > any >> > > > of >> > > > > its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this >> > > > > communication in error, please notify the sender and >> > delete/destroy >> > > > the >> > > > > original message and any copy of it from your computer or paper >> > > files. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC >> > that >> > > > > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in >> OASIS at: >> > > > > >> > > >> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -- >> > > > > >> > > > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750 >> > > > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > treport.com/pm/default.aspx?pagetypeid=homepage62&sc=669615&bcd=FOOTER5% >> > > > > 20> >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750 >> > > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS >> TC that >> > > > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in >> OASIS at: >> > > > >> > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > The information contained in this communication may be >> CONFIDENTIAL >> > > > and is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. >> > > > If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby >> notified that >> > > > any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this >> communication, >> > > > or any of its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have >> > > > received this communication in error, please notify the >> sender and >> > > > delete/destroy the original message and any copy of it from your >> > > > computer or paper files. >> > > > >> > > > >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS >> TC that >> > > > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in >> OASIS at: >> > > > >> > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > >> > > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750 >> > > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! >> > > > >> > > >> > <http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;216722518;39159097;q?http://www.freecredi >> > > > >> > > >> > treport.com/pm/default.aspx?pagetypeid=homepage62&sc=669615&bcd=FOOTER5% >> > > > 20> >> > > > << bus and tech 2.doc >> >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750 >> > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! >> > > >> > > >> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC >> that >> > > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: >> > > >> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > An Excellent Credit Score is 750 >> > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! >> > >> > >> > >> > The information contained in this communication may be >> CONFIDENTIAL and >> > is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. If you >> > are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >> > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication, or >> any of >> > its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this >> > communication in error, please notify the sender and >> delete/destroy the >> > original message and any copy of it from your computer or paper >> files. >> >> > >> >> >> -- >> An Excellent Credit Score is 750 >> See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: >> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >> >> >> >> -- >> Come to Adobe MAX 2009 and sign up for the LiveCycle Bundle - >> http://max.adobe.com/sessions/livecycle/?sdid=EUQZE >> Twitter: duancechaos >> >> > > > -- Rex Brooks President, CEO Starbourne Communications Design GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison Berkeley, CA 94702 Tel: 510-898-0670
[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]