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Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]


In my mind, composition facilitates reuse.

The next question in this row is 'what is reuse?'  I define service reuse as the use of the service in the changed/new execution context; otherwise, it is just a multiple use of the service (i.e. exactly how the service was defined. This, BTW, leads to one more issue (a chain of reaction): the execution context description has to be a part of the Service Description, i.e. the service definition for the consumers)

- Michael



> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Duane Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>
> To: "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>, "James Odell" <email@jamesodell.com>, "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org" <soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: [soa-rm-ra] p ositioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:32:29 -0700
> 
> If this is the consensus, I am happy with this as long as we add a 
> glossary term to denote that the composition does not necessarily 
> preclude reuse (ie – independent lifecycles for the parts).
> 
> D
> 
> 
> On 9/26/09 2:54 PM, "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com> wrote:
> 
> I used term 'composite' only because this word has somehow become 
> commonly used but its sense is certainly 'aggregate'.
> 
> I am happy with '...independent and aggregate services...' while, 
> IMO, 'composable' and 'independent' are not antonyms: and 
> independent service may be composed of other services. Aggregate, 
> in the contrast, is the service that depends on others.
> 
> I remember related discussion about a year ago in one of the 
> Telecoms; I started to use the term 'aggregate'  since that time 
> but was asked on several occasions what it meant.
> 
> - Michael
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "James Odell" <email@jamesodell.com>
> > To: "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org" <soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org>
> > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: 
> > [soa-rm-ra] p ositioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
> > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 15:22:54 -0400
> > 
> > 
> > Additionally in UML ³composite aggregation², the composite object has
> > responsibility for the existence and storage of the composed objects
> > (parts).  So can a composite service be thought of as having the
> > responsibility for the existence and storage of the composed objects
> > (parts)?  I would say yes ‹ but is this always true?  For 
> > example a Process
> > Order service could defined as a SOAservice that has responsibility for the
> > existence for other first class services that are composed (e.g., Accept
> > order, Fill Order, Ship Order and Close Order).  Here, the cmpositing
> > service could include service orchestration, as Duane suggests.
> > On the other hand, Could I have a service that is a ³taxonomic² 
> > aggregation.
> > For example, a Process Payment service may simply  consist of various kinds
> > of first class payment services, such as Cash Payment, Credit Card Payment,
> > Wire Transfer payment, etc).  However, one could also argue that event this
> > could be thought of a composite, because it the responsibiliy for the
> > existence and storage of the composed services.  However, this may or may
> > not nvolve orchestration ‹ only part whole.
> > 
> > -Jim Odell
> > 
> > 
> > On 9/25/09 6:14 PM, "Duane Nickull" indited:
> > 
> > > Via Aggregation.  Aggregation is a UML pattern whereby the parts
> > > are ³used² by
> > > the whole.  If th whole does not exist, the parts can exist which is
> > > necessary for re-use.  Composition (by contrast) is a UML 
> > pattern whereby the
> > > parts are ³part of² the whole, hence their lifecycle is tied 
> > to the lifecycle
> > > of the whole.    When the whole ceases to exist, so do the parts,
> > > hence making
> > > ³reuse² not possible.
> > >
> > > I think aggregation is a better term, however the press and others have
> > > already gone with ³service composition² as a buzzword.  
> > Service Orchestration
> > > is just as good as aggregation IMO.
> > >
> > > Duane
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/25/09 2:50 PM, "Lublinsky, Boris" <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> If the services are not composable, then how are they better compared to
> > >> existing applications
> > >>
> > >> --- original message ---
> > >> From: "Rex Brooks" <rexb@starboune.com>
> > >> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: [soa-rm-r]
> > >> positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
> > >> Date: September 25, 2009
> > >> Time: 4:41:26  PM
> > >>
> > >> Duane, I'm picturing you tugging on Superman's cape, while spittin' into
> > >> the wind, tilting at windmills and messin' with Bad Bad LeRoy Brown,
> > >> while sliding into heaven sideways, brew in hand singing, "What a Ride!"
> > >>
> > >> You're right, and so is Frank, and I definitely prefer "aggregate-able
> > >> or capable of being included in various types of aggregations,"...
> > >>
> > >> but I think the boat already left, folks. We don't have to catch up with
> > >> it nor need we catch the next one. It will go as it will.
> > >>
> > >> I personally don't have strong enough feelings about it to be road kill
> > >> for it or against it. I happen to be involved in a set of SOA services
> > >> that absolutely MUST be composable, but I am satisfied that they will be
> > >> regardless of how this sentence in theSOA-RAF introduction is worded.
> > >>
> > >> It makes it marginally easier for me to get the business audiences I
> > >> deal with to act right if "composable" services is something I can point
> > >> to when or if we get people insisting on something really dumb, like
> > >> "Point-to-Point" is the only distribution protocol that counts," or "we
> > >> can use the rules for RSS Feeds for all distribution." I suppose its not
> > >> impossible, but I don't really expect to see it.
> > >>
> > >> BTW, I don't read the sentence to ean that ALL independent services
> > >> MUST also be composable. It means " a network of independent services
> > >> and/or composable services." I think independent composable services is
> > >> almost a contradiction of erms or almost an oxymoron.
> > >>
> > >> Cheers,
> > >> Rex
> > >>
> > >> Duane Nickull wrote:
> > >>> > My take on this:
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> 
> > http://technoracle.blogspot.com/2007/09/soa-anti-patterns-service-compositio
> > >>> n.html
> > >>> >
> > >>> > D
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> > On 9/25/9 1:21 PM, "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com> wrote:
> > >>> >
> > >>> >     I do not have any strong objections.
> > >>> >
> > >>> >     'Composable' means to me that the service may be composed; the
> > >>> >     question is - composed by what and how this corresponds to
> > >>> >     'independent'? 'Composite' or 'aggregate' (as Ken pointed once) is
> > >>> >     the service, which is composed already by other services, which
> > >>> >     comprises other services, i.e. it is not independent. This is what
> > >>> >     I tried to "EmFasis" :-)
> > >>> >
> > >>> >     You, folks, decide.
> > >>> >
> > >>> >     - Michael
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>>> >     > ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>> >     > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" <robert.ellinger@ngc.com>
> > >>>> >     > To: "Lublinsky, Boris" <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>, "Mike
> > >>> >     Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>, soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >>>> >     > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was:
> > >>> >     [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business]
> > >>>> >     > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:01:34 -0500
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> >     > Mike, I like the sentence.  Boris, I think that "composable
> > >>> >     services" is
> > >>>> >     > the correct term.  I've heard many "experts" and 
> > "gurus" use the
> > term
> > >>>> >     > and concept since at least 2003 and seems to me to put the
> > >>> >     "EmFasis on
> > >>>> >     > the rite Silobbal", as my dad would say.
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> >     > -----Original Message-----
> > >>>> >     > From: Lublinsky, Boris [mailto:boris.lublinsky@navteq.com]
> > >>>> >     > Sent: Friday,September 25, 2009 3:50 PM
> > >>>> >     > To: Mike Poulin; Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Lublinsky, Boris;
> > >>>> >     > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >>>> >     > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was:
> > >>>> >     > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT 
> > and business]
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> >     > Composable?
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> >     > -----Original Message-----
> > >>>> >     > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com]
> > >>>> >    > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 2:27 PM
> > >>>> >     > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Mike Poulin; Lublinsky, Boris;
> > >>>> >     > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >>>> >     > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was:
> > >>>> >     > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT 
> > and business]
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> >     > Bob,
> > >>>> >     >   this is the phrase:
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> >     >  From a holistic perspective, a SOA-based system is 
> > a network of
> > >>>> >     > independent services, machines, the people who operate, affect,
> > >>> >     use and
> > >>>> >     > govern those services as well as ...
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> >     > I propose to say: "...a network of independent and composite
> > >>> >     services,
> > >>>> >     > machines, the..."
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> >     > - Michael
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>>> >     > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>> >     > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" <robert.ellinger@ngc.com>
> > >>>>> >     > > To: "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>, "Lublinsky, Boris"
> > >>>> >     > <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>, soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >>>>> >     > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for 
> > Wednesday [was:
> > >>>> >     > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT 
> > and business]
> > >>>>> >     > > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:40:28 -0500
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > > There was one sentence that you sent that I could 
> > not make head
> > or
> > >>>> >     > tail
> > >>>>> >     > > of as I noted.  Otherwise, I hought I had 
> > incorporated all of
> > your
> > >>>>> >     > > comments
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > > Bob
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > > -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>> >     > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com]
> > >>>>> >     > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:31 PM
> > >>>>> >     > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Mike Poulin; Lublinsky, Boris;
> > >>>>> >     > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >>>>> >     > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for 
> > Wednesday [was:
> > >>>> >     > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT 
> > and business]
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > > I am afraid, I am lost. I do not see some of the
> > >>>>> crucial changes
> > I
> > >>>>> >     > > advocated for and you agreed to accommodate:
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > > "The SOA Ecosystem described in this document must
> > >>>>> be understood
> > in
> > >>>>> >     > > terms of its support of business services."
> > >>>>> >     > > - MP - great!
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > > "Business services provide business functionality 
> > in pursuit of
> > >>>> >     > business
> > >>>>> >     > > outcome; while SOA services provide IT artifacts
> > >>>>> that facilitate
> > >>>>> >     > > connectivity of functional units to realize and support the
> > >>> >     business
> > >>>>> >     > > services."
> > >>>>> >     > > - MP - my proposal: 'Business services provide business
> > >>> >     functionality
> > >>>> >     > in
> > >>>>> >     > > pursuit of the business outcome; while IT 
> > artifacts facilitate
> > >>>>> >     > > connectivity of functional units to realize and support the
> > >>> >     business
> > >>>>> >     > > services.'
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > > "Therefore, SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly
> > >>>>> Business, but is
> > of
> > >>>> >     > both
> > >>>>> >     > > worlds."
> > >>>>> >     > > - MP - great! You commented: 'This doesn't make 
> > sense to me. It
> > >>> >     is not
> > >>>>> >     > > cnnected to SOA in anyway' but left the statement. I am for
> > having
> > >>>> >     >this
> > >>>>> >     > > statement as it is (it is not my text but very right oe IMO)
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > > "Neither Business nor IT completely own govern, and manage
> > >>> >     this SOA
> > >>>>> >     > > Ecosystem. The SOA Eosystem must accommodate both sets of
> > concerns
> > >>>> >     > for
> > >>>>> >     > > t fulfill its purpose and potential."
> > >>>>> >     > > - MP - great!
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > > "Business needs to drive the development of 
> > services delivered
> > >>> >     through
> > >>>>> >     > > processes and its supporting IT, which provides 
> > the capability
> > that
> > >>>>> >     > > satisfies those needs. This is the business value of SOA."
> > >>>>> >     > > - MP - development of services is not necessary delivered
> > through
> > >>>>> >     > > processes and supporting IT. This is why my proposal is:
> > >>>>> >     > >   'Business needs to drive the development of 
> > services, which
> > >>> >     provides
> > >>>>> >     > > the capability that satisfies those needs. This 
> > is the business
> > >>> >     value
> > >>>> >     > of
> > >>>>> >     > > SOA.'
> > >>>>> >     > > or
> > >>>>> >     > >   'Business needs to drive the development of
> > >>>>> services delivered
> > >>>> >     > through
> > >>>>> >     > > Business and IT, which provides the capability 
> > that satisfies
> > those
> > >>>>> >     > > needs. This is the business value of SOA.'
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > > (i.e. none Business or IT , or both; SOA is in between them)
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > > Thus, my variant of the text looks like this:
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > > The SOA Ecosystem described in this document must 
> > be understood
> > in
> > >>>> >     > terms
> > >>>>> >     > > of its support of business services. Business 
> > services provide
> > >>>> >     > business
> > >>>>> >     > > functionality in pursuit of the business outcome; while IT
> > >>> >     artifacts
> > >>>>> >     > > facilitate connectivity of functional units to realize and
> > >>> >     support the
> > >>>>> >     > > business services. Therefore, SOA is neither wholly IT nor
> > wholly
> > >>>>> >     > > Business, but is of both worlds. Neither Business 
> > nor IT >>>>>
> > completely
> > >>>> >     > own,
> > >>>>> >     > > govern, and manage this SOA Ecosystem. The SOA 
> > Ecosystem must
> > >>>>> >     > > accommodate both sets of concerns for to fulfill
> > >>>>> its purpose and
> > >>>>> >     > > potential. Business needs to drive the 
> > development of services,
> > >>> >     which
> > >>>>> >     > > provides the capability that satisfies those 
> > needs. This is the
> > >>>> >     > business
> > >>>>> >     > > value of SOA.
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > > - Michael
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>>> >     > > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" <robert.ellinger@ngc.com>
> > >>>>>> >     > > > To: "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>, "Lublinsky, Boris"
> > >>>>> >     > > <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>, soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for
> > >>>>>> Wednesday [was:
> > >>>>> >     > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT
> > >>>>> and business]
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:56:23 -0500
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Try this.
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Bob
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com]
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:31 AM
> > >>>>>> >     > > > To: Lublinsky, Boris; Mike Poulin;
> > >>>>>> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for
> > >>>>>> Wednesday [was:
> > >>>>>> >     > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
> > business]
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Boris has reminded me one thing: in the 
> > paragraph following
> > >>> >     the two
> > >>>>>> >     > > > paragraphs we are discussing now we say 
> > something like 'SOA
> > is a
> > >>>>> >     > > network
> > >>>>>> >     > > > of independent services...' I would modify 
> > this phrase a bit
> > >>> >     saying
> > >>>>>> >     > > > something like 'SOA is a network of independent
> > >>>>>> and composite
> > >>>>>> >     > > > services...'
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Sorry, I did not mention this earlier.
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > This is all what I wanted to say about SOA and Buz.
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > - Michael
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>>> >     > > > From: "Lublinsky, Boris"
> > >>>>>> >     > > > To: "Mike Poulin" , soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for
> > >>>>>> Wednesday [was:
> > >>>>>> >     > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
> > business]
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:04:35 -0500
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > I tend to agree with Mike/jeff
> > >>>>>> >     > > > See below
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>> >     > > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com]
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:15 AM
> > >>>>>> >     > > > To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for
> > >>>>>> Wednesday [was:
> > >>>>>> >     > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
> > business]
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Importance: High
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > I believe service orientation has the enormous 
> > potential to
> > >>> >     become
> > >>>> >     > the
> > >>>>>> >     > > > basic business operational model and SOA will be
> > >>>>>> the basis of
> > the
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Business Architecture.
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Since we do not have time for this discussion now, let's
> > >>> >     return to
> > >>>> >     > our
> > >>>>>> >     > > > text.
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > B.L. Moreover, as I re read the text I am 
> > realizing more and
> > more
> > >>>> >     > that
> > >>>>>> >     > > > this is not so much about SOA but mostly about 
> > ESB. I am of
> > >>> >     course
> > >>>>> >     > > over
> > >>>>>> >     > > > simplifying, but hopefully you got the jest. 
> > We managed to
> > >>> >     leap frog
> > >>>>>> >     > > > business architecture and servicizing the
> > >>>>>> enterprise and jump
> > >>>> >     > directly
> > >>>>>> >     > > > into the issues of service interaction - 
> > ecosystem. This is
> > fine,
> > >>>> >     > but
> > >>>>>> >     > > > who is going to live in this wonderful ecosystem.
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > The only thing I hope to set in the RA 
> > standard is an open
> > >>> >     door to
> > >>>> >     > the
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Business opportunity of SOA instead of locking it in IT.
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > This means I vote for enough 'ambiguity' in the text that
> > would
> > >>>> >     > allow
> > >>>>>> >     > > > anybody to go with SOA in both - technical and business -
> > >>>> >     > directions,
> > >>>>> >     > > if
> > >>>>>> >     > > > needed.
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > B.L. Fair enough. Lets create the door, but 
> > may be, just may
> > >>> >     be open
> > >>>>> >     > > it
> > >>>>>> >     > > > up slightly for the next review. This is why I think, the
> > >>> >     text under
> > >>>>>> >     > > > discussion, does not belong in the ecosystem, but rather
> > >>> >     above it.
> > >>>> >     > We
> > >>>>>> >     > > > talk about business/IT alignment and then 
> > define ecosystem
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > The following is my modifications to the text 
> > that together
> > >>> >     aim only
> > >>>>> >     > > one
> > >>>>>> >     > > > statement: "SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly
> > >>>>>> Business, but
> > >>> >     is of
> > >>>>> >     > > both
> > >>>>>> >     > > > worlds." Particularly:
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > a) I agree in full with:
> > >>>>>> >     > > > <
> > >>>>>> >     > > > components and subsystems. They must be understood within
> > their
> > >>>>> >     > > context
> > >>>>>> >     > > > or environment; particularly, when there are many
> > >>> >     interactions among
> > >>>>> >     > > the
> > >>>>>> >     > > > parts. For example, a biological ecosystem is a
> > >>>>>> self-sustaining
> > >>>>>> >     > > > association of plants, animals, and the 
> > physical environment
> > in
> > >>>> >     > which
> > >>>>>> >     > > > they live. Understanding an ecosystem often requires this
> > >>> >     holistic
> > >>>>>> >     > > > perspective of the system and its environment
> > >>>>>> rather than one
> > >>>> >     > focusing
> > >>>>>> >     > > > on the system's individual parts.>>
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > b) I DISagree with << The SOA Ecosystem described in this
> > >>> >     document
> > >>>>> >     > > must
> > >>>>>> >     > > > be understood in terms of its support of 
> > business services,
> > >>> >     which is
> > >>>>> >     > > its
> > >>>>>> >     > > > environment.>>
> > >>>>>> >     > > > My proposal is this:
> > >>>>>> >     > > > << The SOA Ecosystem described in this document must be
> > >>> >     understood
> > >>>> >     > in
> > >>>>>> >     > > > terms of its support of business services.>>
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > B.L. See comment above
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > c) I DISagree with << Business services provide business
> > >>>> >     > functionality
> > >>>>>> >     > > > in pursuit of the business outcome; while SOA services
> > provide IT
> > >>>>>> >     > > > artifacts that facilitate connectivity of
> > >>>>>> functional units to
> > >>>> >     > realize
> > >>>>>> >     > > > and support the business services. Therefore, 
> > SOA is neither
> > >>> >     wholly
> > >>>> >     > IT
> > >>>>>> >     > > > nor wholly Business, but is of both worlds. >>
> > >>>>>> >     > > > My proposal is this:
> > >>>>>> >     > > > <
> > >>>>>> >     > > > outcome, together with its technical 
> > realization and support
> > >>>> >     > provided
> > >>>>> >     > > by
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Information Technology. Therefore, SOA is 
> > neither wholly IT
> > nor
> > >>>> >     > wholly
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Business, but is of both worlds.>>
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > B.L. How about:
> > >>>>>> >     > > > << SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly 
> > Business, but is of
> > both
> > >>>>> >     > > worlds.
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Without involvement of the business, defining service
> > >>> >     functionality
> > >>>>>> >     > > > based on the enterprise business model and 
> > aligned with the
> > >>>> >     > enterprise
> > >>>>>> >     > > > business processes, SOA can't fulfill the promise of
> > business/IT
> > >>>>>> >     > > > alignment and support for flexible, process-driven
> > enterprise.
> > >>>> >     > Without
> > >>>>>> >     > > > involvement of IT, implementing SOA ecosystem, supporting
> > >>> >     flexible
> > >>>>>> >     > > > service deployment, interactions, monitoring 
> > and management
> > SOA
> > >>>> >     > can't
> > >>>>>> >     > > > fulfill the promise of scalable, maintainable IT.>>
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > d) I DISagree with << Business needs drive the
> > >>>>>> development of
> > >>>> >     > services
> > >>>>>> >     > > > delivered through IT, which provides the capability that
> > >>> >     satisfies
> > >>>>> >     > > those
> > >>>>>> >     > > > needs. This is the business value of SOA.>>
> > >>>>>> >     > > > My proposal is:
> > >>>>>> >     > > > << Business needs to drive the development of
> > >>>>>> services, which
> > >>>> >     > provides
> > >>>>>> >     > > > the capability that satisfies those needs. This is the
> > business
> > >>>> >     > value
> > >>>>> >     > > of
> > >>>>>> >     > > > SOA.>>
> > >>>>>> >     > > > or
> > >>>>>> >     > > > << Business needs to drive the development of services
> > delivered
> > >>>>> >     > > through
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Business and IT, which provides the capability
> > >>>>>> that satisfies
> > >>> >     those
> > >>>>>> >     > > > needs. This is the business value of SOA.>>
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Regards,
> > >>>>>> >     > > > - Michael
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" To: "Mike Poulin" ,
> > "Lublinsky,
> > >>>>> >     > > Boris"
> > >>>>>> >     > > > , rexb@starbourne.com
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Cc: "Laskey, Ken" , soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion 
> > for Wednesday
> > [was:
> > >>>>>> >     > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
> > business]
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:30:41 -0500
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Mike:
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > We are trying to get to the same concept, 
> > but really what
> > >>> >     is being
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > discussed is a cultural paradigm shift. In 
> > my view, the
> > >>> >     execution
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > context is the technical context within 
> > which the service
> > >>>> >     > components
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > exist and within in which they are executed 
> > as enablers
> > and
> > >>>> >     > support
> > >>>>>> >     > > > for
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > the process. The service components are the parts and
> > >>>> >     > subassemblies.
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > The process flow, which is part of the 
> > execution context,
> > as
> > >>>> >     > defined
> > >>>>>> >     > > > by
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > the orchestration or choreography (both of which have
> > business
> > >>>> >     > rules
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > engines to ensure that policies/standards/business
> > >>> >     rules/etc. are
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > followed).
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Business process modeling as instantiated by
> > >>>>>>> the assembled
> > >>> >     of the
> > >>>>> >     > > SOA
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > service components, with the associated business rule,
> > >>> >     links the
> > >>>>>> >     > > > system
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > to the business processes. Provided that the business
> > processes
> > >>>>> >     > > serve
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > the goals or objectives or the business 
> > (that is provides
> > >>> >     value to
> > >>>>> >     > > the
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > business) then the tools as instantiated in the SOA
> > service
> > >>>>> >     > > multiplies
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > the effectiveness of the process.
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > The cultural shift involves the fact that 
> > when business
> > >>> >     challenges
> > >>>>> >     > > or
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > opportunities arise, the business processes and SOA
> > supporting
> > >>>>>> >     > > > services
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > can meet those challenge because SOA enable
> > >>>>>>> agile systems.
> > I
> > >>>> >     > define
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > agility as "successful response to 
> > unexpected challenges
> > and
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > opportunities." BTW, this is the definition
> > >>>>>>> of the Agility
> > >>> >     Forum
> > >>>>>> >     > > > (circa
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > 1990) associated with Lehigh University (that
> > >>>>>>> is Nagel and
> > his
> > >>>> >     > group
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > that wrote the book on the agile 
> > enterprise). Currently,
> > the
> > >>>>>> >     > > > monolithic
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > architecture of most ERP-like systems do not allow
> > agility,
> > >>> >     while
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > functional architecture place emphasis on 
> > optimizing for
> > the
> > >>>>> >     > > function;
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > creating silos. There is an axiom in 
> > Systems Engineering
> > that
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > optimizing the subsystems, sub-optimizes 
> > the system. SOA
> > >>> >     enables
> > >>>>> >     > > both
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > optimization and agility of the system, but requires
> > mapping of
> > >>>> >     > the
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > system to the organization's processes as the price
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > I could and have said a great deal more, 
> > but I think that
> > is
> > >>>> >     > enough.
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > The linkage is there for anyone to get the 
> > maximum value
> > out of
> > >>>> >     > the
> > >>>>>> >     > > > SOA
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > and both the business processes and the composite
> > applications
> > >>>>>> >     > > > (process
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > assembled service components???) or 
> > whatever operating in
> > the
> > >>>>>> >     > > > execution
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > context, must enable and support the processes. As the
> > >>> >     processes
> > >>>>>> >     > > > change
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > in response to challenges and opportunities, both the
> > processes
> > >>>> >     > and
> > >>>>>> >     > > > the
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > composite application must respond quickly and
> > >>> >     successfully. This
> > >>>> >     > is
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > not the way it is done now, and that is the cultural
> > change
> > >>> >     that
> > >>>> >     > is
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > needed.
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com]
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:18 PM
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Lublinsky, Boris;
> > >>> >     rexb@starbourne.com
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com;
> > >>> >     soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion 
> > for Wednesday
> > [was:
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
> > >>> >     business]
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Robert,
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > as we know SOA defines Execution Context. 
> > Since we never
> > >>> >     defined
> > >>>>> >     > > what
> > >>>>>> >     > > > it
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > includes, I suggest (and promote this opinion) that EC
> > includes
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Business
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > EC and Technical EC. Business services cannot be 'the
> > >>> >     environment
> > >>>> >     > of
> > >>>>>> >     > > > the
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > SOA Ecosystem' because it is included into 
> > SOA. Business
> > EC
> > >>>> >     > defines
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > business execution policies and Technical EC defines
> > technical
> > >>>>>> >     > > > execution
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > policies. SOA Ecosystem comprises both business and
> > technical
> > >>>>> >     > > realms.
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Phrase "while SOA services provide IT artifacts that
> > facilitate
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > connectivity of functional units to realize 
> > and support
> > the
> > >>>> >     > business
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > services."" has a problem because SOA service does not
> > >>> >     necessary
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > "facilitate connectivity of functional units". For
> > instance,a
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > self-contained stand-alone business technical service
> > >>> >     realises its
> > >>>>> >     > > own
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > business function or feature w/o joining with other
> > "functional
> > >>>>>> >     > > > units".
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Plus, SOA Service may or may not contain any
> > >>>>>>> IT artefacts.
> > Time
> > >>>> >     > when
> > >>>>>> >     > > > SOA
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > was considered a pure technical thing is gone (and for
> > good).
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > I agree with you on "The value of IT is the 
> > same as any
> > other
> > >>>> >     > tool".
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > This is why I think that statement " 
> > Business needs drive
> > the
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > development of services delivered through IT, which
> > >>> >     provides the
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > capability that satisfies those needs. This is the
> > business
> > >>> >     value
> > >>>> >     > of
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > SOA" requires corrections. Development of 
> > services is not
> > >>>> >     > necessary
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > delivered through IT, it may be purely manual business
> > >>> >     service and
> > >>>>>> >     > > > many
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > services of such nature exist.
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Based on my discussion in several Business 
> > Architecture
> > >>> >     groups on
> > >>>>> >     > > the
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Web, any business process in Business may 
> > be defined as
> > >>> >     business
> > >>>>>> >     > > > service
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > with or without technical component.
> > >>>>>>> Implementation of the
> > >>>> >     > business
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > service, as we know, is not that important for
> > >>>>>>> service-oriented
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Architecture.
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > If we state that SOA positions BETWEEN
> > >>>>>>> Business and IT, we
> > >>> >     MAY NOT
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > attribute it to IT only and confront it 
> > with the business
> > >>> >     service.
> > >>>>>> >     > > > This
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > is illogical.
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > - Michael
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)"
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > To: "Lublinsky, Boris" , rexb@starbourne.com
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Cc: "Laskey, Ken" , mpoulin@usa.com,
> > >>>> >     > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion 
> > for Wednesday
> > [was:
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
> > >>> >     business]
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:19:49 -0500
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > See below
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > From: Lublinsky, Boris
> > >>>>>>> [mailto:boris.lublinsky@navteq.com]
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:58 AM
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); rexb@starbourne.com;
> > >>> >     Lublinsky, Boris
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com;
> > >>> >     soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion 
> > for Wednesday
> > [was:
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
> > >>> >     business]
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > I have no idea what this means:
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > "The SOA Ecosystem described in this document must be
> > >>> >     understood
> > >>>> >     > in
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > terms of its support of business services, 
> > which is its
> > >>>>> >     > > environment."
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > What is which environment?
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Business services are the environment of the SOA
> > Ecosystem.
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Also:
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > " Business services provide business functionality in
> > >>> >     pursuit of
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > business outcome; while SOA services 
> > provide IT artifacts
> > that
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > facilitate connectivity of functional units
> > >>>>>>> to realize and
> > >>> >     support
> > >>>>> >     > > the
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > business services."
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > SOA services is a complete misnomer. 
> > Infrastructure I can
> > >>> >     buy, but
> > >>>>> >     > > SOA
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > services?
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > I disagree with that. The infrastructure 
> > provides nothing
> > >>> >     except
> > >>>> >     > an
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > operating context. Only when SOA Service (which in my
> > >>>> >     > understanding
> > >>>>> >     > > is
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > a composite application with contractual obligations)
> > >>> >     provide any
> > >>>>>> >     > > > value
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > to the customer.
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > And finally:
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > " Business needs drive the development of services
> > delivered
> > >>>> >     > through
> > >>>>>> >     > > > IT,
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > which provides the capability that 
> > satisfies those needs.
> > >>> >     This is
> > >>>>> >     > > the
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > business value of SOA."
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > This has several problems:
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > 1. Business is concerned only with business 
> > services and
> > drives
> > >>>>> >     > > their
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > design, not development 2. What is the business value?
> > What
> > >>> >     does
> > >>>>> >     > > this
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > points to?
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > My understanding of the term development is that it
> > includes
> > >>>> >     > design,
> > >>>>>> >     > > > but
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > if you want to change it...The value of IT 
> > is the same as
> > any
> > >>>> >     > other
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > tool, to multiple the value of the process.
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Adam Smith pointed this out in Chapter 1 of 
> > Book 1 of the
> > >>> >     Wealth
> > >>>> >     > of
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Nations. This is a point lost on IT as this comment
> > >>> >     demonstrates.
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > I think we are digressing.
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > I hope not.
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > From: Ellinger, Robert S (IS)
> > >>>>>>> [mailto:robert.ellinger@ngc.com]
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:46 AM
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > To: rexb@starbourne.com; Lublinsky, Boris
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com;
> > >>> >     soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion 
> > for Wednesday
> > [was:
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
> > >>> >     business]
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Hi:
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Please try this edit.
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Bob
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:34 AM
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > To: Lublinsky, Boris
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Cc: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Laskey, Ken;
> > >>>>>>> mpoulin@usa.com;
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion 
> > for Wednesday
> > [was:
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
> > >>> >     business]
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Very minor grammar correction, Boris,
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > I'm just a nit picker.
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > ;)
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Rex
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Lublinsky, Boris wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > I haven't seen people discussing my grammar so much
> > >>> >     lately. I am
> > >>>>>> >     > > > doing
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > something wrong sorry.
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > I am fine with managing
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:07 AM
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS)
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > Cc: Lublinsky, Boris; Laskey, Ken;
> > >>>>>>>> mpoulin@usa.com; > >
> > >
> > >>>>> >     > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion
> > >>>>>>>> for Wednesday
> > [was:
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp 
> > between IT and
> > >>> >     business]
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > Hi Folks,
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > I'm being technically challenged at the moment with
> > remote
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > participation
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > in overlapping meetings the latter of which isn't
> > starting
> > >>>>>> >     > > > and > > the former of which appears to have
> > >>>>>> ended early while
> > I
> > >>>>>> >     > > > dropped > > off to attend the latter.Sheseh!
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > Here's how I would correct Boris's grammar with one
> > >>>>>> >     > > > word-substitution:
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > I
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > don't want the concept of "orchestration" being
> > confused with
> > >>>> >     > the
> > >>>>>> >     > > > use
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > of
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > "orchestrating" so I am changing that to "managing"
> > which we
> > >>>> >     > don't
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > spend
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > much attention on in the RAF yet .(I just
> > >>>>>>>> want to avoid
> > >>> >     anyone
> > >>>>>> >     > > > asking
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > if
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > we mean that "all business services must 
> > be delivered
> > via
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > orchestration."):
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > Business drives the definition of business services
> > aligned
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > with > enterprise business functionality and business
> > >>>>> >     > > processes, > > > managing execution of these 
> > services, while IT
> > >>>>> >     > > defines > > > infrastructure services,
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > providing support across a wide range of business
> > services
> > >>>>>> >     > > > and > > implements both types of services. Such
> > >>>>>> collaboration
> > >
> > >>>>> >     > > allows > > stronger communications between both, 
> > by creating >
> > >>>>> >     > > one-to-one > > mapping between business and IT artifacts.
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > Regardless, since it is clear that Bob did
> > >>>>>>>> not actually
> > >>>>> >     > > pick > up > > Boris's additions and so didn't drop
> > >>>>> them, and Ken
> > >>>>> >     > > had one > more > > addition he was considering,
> > >>>>> could we ask Ken
> > >>>>> >     > > to correct > > Boris's > grammar, fold in Bob's
> > >>>>> slight rewording
> > >>>>> >     > > and add his > > piece? Then, > perhaps Jeff and/or Jim could
> > make
> > >>>>> >     > > the crisp > > differentiation > between business 
> > services and
> > SOA
> > >>>>> >     > > services or > > between business > services and IT
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > services
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > Cheers,
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > Rex
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > Ellinger, Robert S (IS) wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> Didn't intend to drop Boris's additions...must of
> > missed >
> > >>>>> >     > > them. > I >> thought we were to start from where 
> > you left off,
> > so
> > >>>>>> >     > > > that is > >> what I
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > did.
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> Sorry Boris...Perhaps we were working 
> > concurrently
> > and the
> > >>>>> >     > > material
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > crossed.
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> Bob
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 1:10 AM
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> To: Lublinsky, Boris
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> Cc: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Laskey, Ken;
> > mpoulin@usa.com;
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > >> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for
> > Wednesday
> > >>> >     [was:
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the 
> > cusp between IT
> > and
> > >>>> >     > business]
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> My task was to get the work rolling. I have minor
> > >>> >     quibbles with
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > correct
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> English grammar in Boris's additions, and I agree
> > with
> > >>>>> >     > > Jeff > > that >> the distinction between 
> > "business service' and
> > >>>>> >     > > "SOA > > service" >> needs to be made. In general I think
> > simpler
> > >>>>> >     > > is > > better, but as >> long as the grammar is 
> > corrected, I'd
> > be
> > >>>>> >     > > fine > > with Boris's >> additions. I don't have 
> > any problems
> > >>>>> >     > > with Bob's > > minor rewording, >> but i don't see why he
> > dropped
> > >>>>> >     > > Boris's > > additions..
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> I'll look at it again in the morning.
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> Cheers,
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> Rex
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> Lublinsky, Boris wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> You through away all changes that 
> > were suggested
> > after this
> > >>>>>> >     > > > initial
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> one?
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> From: Ellinger, Robert S (IS)
> > >>> >     [mailto:robert.ellinger@ngc.com]
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:41 PM
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> To: rexb@starbourne.com
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com;
> > >>>> >     > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for
> > Wednesday
> > >>> >     [was:
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the 
> > cusp between IT
> > and
> > >>>> >     > business]
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> I'd recommend some minor rewording...
> > >>>>>>>>>> -----Original
> > >>>> >     > Message-----
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 1:16 PM
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> To: rexb@starbourne.com
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com;
> > >>>> >     > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for
> > Wednesday
> > >>> >     [was:
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the 
> > cusp between IT
> > and
> > >>>> >     > business]
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> First pass at the Section 1.2 as an additional
> > paragraph
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > after >>> the first paragraph. I include the first
> > paragraph
> > >>>>> >     > > and > > the >>> start of the current second 
> > paragraph here for
> > >>>>> >     > > the > > context:
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> 1.2 Service Oriented Archtecture - An Ecosystem
> > Perspective
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> Many systems cannot be understood by a simple
> > decomposition
> > >>>> >     > into
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > parts
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> and subsystems -- in particular when
> > >>>>>>>>>> there are many
> > >>> >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > interactions between the parts. For example, a
> > >>>>>> biological >>>
> > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > ecosystem is a self-sustaining association of plants,
> > animals,
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> and the hysical environment in which they live.
> > >>>>> >     > > Undestanding > > an >>> ecosystem often requires a holistic
> > >>>>> >     > > perspective rather > > than one >>> focusing on the
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> system's individual parts.
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> The SOA Ecosystem described in this document
> > occupies the
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > >>> > boundary between Business and IT. It is neither
> > wholly IT
> > >>>>>> >     > > > nor >>> > wholly Business,
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> but is of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT
> > >>> >     completely own,
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > govern
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> and manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both sets of
> > concerns must
> > >>>>>> >     > > > be > >>> accommodated for the SOA Ecosystem to 
> > fulfill its >
> > >>>>> >     > > purposes. > >>> Business
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> needs drive the development of 
> > services delivered
> > through
> > >>>>>> >     > > > IT, > >>> providing the capability that satisfies those
> > needs.
> > >>>>>> >     > > > This is > >>> the business value of SOA.
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> From a holistic perspective, a 
> > SOA-based system is
> > a >
> > >>>>> >     > > network > of >>> independent services, machines, 
> > the people who
> > >
> > >>>>> >     > > operate, > affect, >>> use and govern those 
> > services as well as
> > >
> > >>>>> >     > > ...
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> Cheers,
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> Rex
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> Rex Brooks wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>> Hi Ken, Everyone,
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>> I believe that the email you are 
> > looking for is
> > your
> > >>> >     reply to
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Frank:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/soa-rm-ra/email/archives
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>> /
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>> 200906/msg00012.html
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>> This is what Frank Wrote Jun 14, 
> > 2009, at 7:12
> > PM:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>> "I sympathize with the sentiment 
> > behind this. We
> > have
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > >>>> > > consistently identified SOA as being at the
> > boundary
> > >>>>> >     > > between > >>>> > business and IT. It
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>> is
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>> neither wholly IT nor wholly 
> > business but is of
> > both
> > >>> >     worlds.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>> That represents potentially one of
> > >>>>>>>>>>> SOA's greatest
> > >>>>> >     > > opportunities;
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > and
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>> the source of its weaknesses: 
> > neither business
> > nor IT can
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > completely
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>> own/grok SOA.
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>> Frank"
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>> The email referenced above 
> > contains the most or
> > all of the
> > >>>>> >     > > thread
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > "Are
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>> we being ignored?"
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>> I'm not sure we would help 
> > ourselves if we say
> > more than
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > "The >>>> SOA Ecosystem described in this document
> > occupies
> > >>>>> >     > > the > > boundary >>>> between Business and IT. It is neither
> > >>>>> >     > > wholly IT > > nor wholly >>>> Business, but is
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>> of both worlds. Neither Business nor IT
> > completely own,
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > govern >>>> and manage this SOA Ecosystem. 
> > Both sets of
> > >>>>> >     > > concerns > > MUST be
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > accommodated
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>> for the SOA Ecosystem to fulfill 
> > its purposes."
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>> Cheers,
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>> Rex
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>> Laskey, Ken wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> This is a reminder that this week we are
> > scheduled to
> > >>>> >     > discuss
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > adding
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> the text on the overlap of SOA 
> > and business.
> > Below is
> > >>> >     text
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > suggested
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> by Michael Poulin and there is 
> > another email
> > from
> > >>> >     Boris with
> > >>>> >     > a
> > >>>>>> >     > > > lot
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> of
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> idea that would need to be condensed and
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > added/substituted/combined.
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> Let's get the discussion far 
> > enough along that
> > we can
> > >>> >     bring
> > >>>>> >     > > this
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > to
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> (close to) closure by the end of 
> > Wednesday's
> > call.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> I remember there was an email
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> where Frank wrote
> > something
> > >>>> >     > very
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > crisp
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> on this subject that I replied was
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> exactly what
> > we
> > >>> >     needed to
> > >>>>>> >     > > > say.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> Unfortunately, I have no idea 
> > when that email
> > thread
> > >>>> >     > occurred.
> > >>>>>> >     > > > If
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> someone could find it, I think 
> > it would be a
> > good
> > >>>> >     > contribution
> > >>>>>> >     > > > to
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> discussion.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> Back to Mike's suggested text, 
> > two immediate
> > things
> > >>> >     come to
> > >>>>>> >     > > > mind.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> 1. Section 1.4 is a discussion of
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> the views and
> > this
> > >>> >     is not
> > >>>> >     > a
> > >>>>>> >     > > > view
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> be added as 1.4.4. I think it fits after
> > section 1.2,
> > >>>> >     > possibly
> > >>>>>> >     > > > as
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> another short section.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> 2. It is not obvious to me what
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> the phrase "the
> > >
> > >>>>> >     > > similarity > of >>>>> the principles of the Value Networks >
> > >>>>> >     > > business model" > means.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> Ken
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>> >     
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> -
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> ------
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> Dr. Kenneth Laskey
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> 703-983-7934
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> 7515 Colshire Drive fax:
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> 703-983-1379
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> McLean VA 22102-7508
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> From: mpoulin@usa.com 
> > [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com]
> > Sent: >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > >>>>> > Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:31 AM
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> Subject: [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the
> > cusp
> > >>> >     between IT
> > >>>>> >     > > and
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > business
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> Hi Folks,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> I join Francis and Boris in
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> suggestion that SOA
> > RA's
> > >>>>>> >     > > > Introduction
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> would benefit from adding a couple of
> > paragraphs on the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> business aspects of SOA positioned across
> > Business and
> > >>>>> >     > > IT.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> In the previous message I 
> > composed a few words
> > for a
> > >>> >     small
> > >>>>>> >     > > > section
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> on
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> this topic and propose to 
> > discuss them as an
> > initial
> > >>> >     draft
> > >>>>>> >     > > > during
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> next (or following) Telecom. 
> > Proposed text may
> > be
> > >>> >     found in
> > >>>> >     > the
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > middle
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> of this message chain.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> Any suggestions?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> - Michael
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>> >     
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> -
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> -----------
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> Subject: RE: todos for PR2
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> From: mpoulin@usa.com To:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >>>> >     > Date:
> > >>>>> >     > > 8
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > Sep
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> 2009 16:21:26 -0000
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>> >     
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> -
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> -----------
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> "positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
> > business" is
> > >>>> >     > what
> > >>>>> >     > > I
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > write
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> a lot for last few months. So, let
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> me propose a
> > >>> >     strawman for
> > >>>>>> >     > > > this
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> text:
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> 1.4.4 Business Value of the 
> > Service Oriented
> > Architecture
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> A Service Oriented Architecture realizes
> > principles
> > >>> >     of the
> > >>>>>> >     > > > concept
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> of
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> service orientation in the sphere of
> > architecture. The
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > architecture
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> in the organisation comprises both business
> > >>>>> >     > > architecture > > and >>>>> technical architecture
> > >>>>> of the systems
> > >>>>> >     > > [ref. to TOGAF > > 9.0]. >>>>> While SOA-based 
> > systems address
> > >>>>> >     > > aspects of the > > technical >>>>> architecture,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > the
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> similarity of the principles of the Value
> > Networks
> > >>> >     business
> > >>>>>> >     > > > model
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > and
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> SOA allows us to see SOA as a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> conceptual bridge
> > between
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> corporate Business and IT.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> Noticed similarity opens up new 
> > possibilities
> > for
> > >>> >     Business
> > >>>> >     > and
> > >>>>>> >     > > > IT
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > to
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> construct service-oriented customer-centric
> > convergent
> > >>>>> >     > > solutions
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > for
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> business problems. Service 
> > orientation enables
> > >
> > >>>>> >     > > operational > >>>>> and technical flexibility,
> > >>>>> which contributes
> > >>>>>> >     > > > to business > >>>>> efficiency the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> great deal. The Service
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Orientation concept has
> > the > >
> > >>>>> >     > > potential >>>>> not only to align IT with 
> > Business, but also to
> > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > align the >>>>> entire
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > company
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> with the market dynamics.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> If the ideas in this writing are 
> > acceptable, I
> > will
> > >>> >     work on
> > >>>>> >     > > the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> wording.
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> - Michael Poulin
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>> >     
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> -
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> -----------
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> From: Francis McCabe To:
> > >>> >     "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org RA"
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:24:08 -0700
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>> >     
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> -
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> -----------
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> 1. As Boris alluded to, I think that a
> > paragraph or two
> > >>>>>> >     > > > in > >>>>> the introduction positioning SOA on the cusp
> > between
> > >>>>>> >     > > > IT and > >>>>> business could be very useful. It is also
> > pretty
> > >>>>>> >     > > > faithful > to >>>>> the RAF!
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> 2. The concept of interaction in the RM
> > referred > >
> > >>>>> >     > > *everything* >>>>> involved in interacting with 
> > services. For
> > the
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > RA we have to
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > unpack
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> that some. This is the foundation for the
> > multi-leveled
> > >>>>> >     > > concept
> > >>>>>> >     > > > of
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> joint action. This should go in 
> > Section 3.1.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> 3. I think that Danny's security
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> diagram should
> > be >
> > >>>>> >     > > updated > >>>>> and incorporated.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> 4. The trust and willingness 
> > stuff should go
> > in.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> 5. It would be good if we could 
> > go through the
> > text
> > >>> >     bolding
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > defined
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> concepts.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>> >     
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> -
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> -----------
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>> >     
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> -
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> -----------
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>> [Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | 
> > [Thread Next] |
> > [Date
> > >>> >     Next] --
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> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
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> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> --
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> Rex Brooks
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> President, CEO
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> Starbourne Communications Design
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> Berkeley, CA 94702
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> Tel: 510-898-0670
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
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> > >>> >     
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>> The information contained in this
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> > be
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> > the recipient(s)
> > named
> > >>>> >     > above.
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> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> you are not the intended recipient, 
> > you are hereby
> > >>>>> >     > > notified > > that >> any dissemination,
> > >>>>> distribution, or copying
> > >>>>> >     > > of this >> > > communication, or any
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> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > of
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have
> > received
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > this >> communication in error, please 
> > notify the sender
> > and
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > >> > > delete/destroy
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> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > > the
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> original message and any copy of it from your
> > computer
> > >>> >     or paper
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > files.
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> --
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> Rex Brooks
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> President, CEO
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> Starbourne Communications Design
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> Berkeley, CA 94702
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> Tel: 510-898-0670
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.ph
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >> p
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>>> >     > > > > >>
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>>> >     > > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > --
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Rex Brooks
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > President, CEO
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Starbourne Communications Design
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Berkeley, CA 94702
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > Tel: 510-898-0670
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > The information contained in this communication may be
> > >>>> >     > CONFIDENTIAL
> > >>>>>> >     > > > and
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named
> > >>> >     above. If
> > >>>> >     > you
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > are not the intended recipient, you are 
> > hereby notified
> > >>> >     that any
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this
> > >>> >     communication, or
> > >>>>> >     > > any
> > >>>>>> >     > > > of
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you
> > >>>>>>> have received
> > this
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > communication in error, please notify the sender and
> > >>>> >     > delete/destroy
> > >>>>>> >     > > > the
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > original message and any copy of it from 
> > your computer or
> > paper
> > >>>>> >     > > files.
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>> >     
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the
> > OASIS TC
> > >>>> >     > that
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > generates this mail. Follow this link to 
> > all your TCs in
> > >>> >     OASIS at:
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>> >
> > >>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > --
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> 
> > treport.com/pm/default.aspx?pagetypeid=homepage62&sc=669615&bcd=FOOTER5%
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > > 20>
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>>> >     > > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > --
> > >>>>>> >     > > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750
> > >>>>>> >     > > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>>> >     > > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must 
> > leave the OASIS
> > >>> >     TC that
> > >>>>>> >     > > > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in
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> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > The information contained in this communication may be
> > >>> >     CONFIDENTIAL
> > >>>>>> >     > > > and is intended only for the use of the 
> > recipient(s) named
> > above.
> > >>>>>> >     > > > If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby
> > >>> >     notified that
> > >>>>>> >     > > > any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this
> > >>> >     communication,
> > >>>>>> >     > > > or any of its contents, is strictly 
> > prohibited. If you have
> > >>>>>> >     > > > received this communication in error, please notify the
> > >>> >     sender and
> > >>>>>> >     > > > delete/destroy the original message and any 
> > copy of it from
> > your
> > >>>>>> >     > > > computer or paper files.
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >>> >     TC that
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> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > --
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750
> > >>>>>> >     > > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> 
> > <http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;216722518;39159097;q?http://www.freecredi
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> 
> > treport.com/pm/default.aspx?pagetypeid=homepage62&sc=669615&bcd=FOOTER5%
> > >>>>>> >     > > > 20>
> > >>>>>> >     > > > << bus and tech 2.doc >>
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>>> >     > > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > > --
> > >>>>> >     > > An Excellent Credit Score is 750
> > >>>>> >     > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>> >     
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>>> >     > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must 
> > leave the OASIS TC
> > >>> >     that
> > >>>>> >     > > generates this mail.  Follow this link to all 
> > your TCs in OASIS
> > at:
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>> >
> > >>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>>> >     > >
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> >     > --
> > >>>> >     > An Excellent Credit Score is 750
> > >>>> >     > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>>> >     > The information contained in this communication may be
> > >>> >     CONFIDENTIAL and
> > >>>> >     > is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) 
> > named above.  If
> > you
> > >>>> >     > are not the intended recipient, you are hereby 
> > notified that any
> > >>>> >     > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this 
> > communication, or
> > >>> >     any of
> > >>>> >     > its contents, is strictly prohibited.  If you have 
> > received this
> > >>>> >     > communication in error, please notify the sender and
> > >>> >     delete/destroy the
> > >>>> >     > original message and any copy of it from your computer or paper
> > >>> >     files.
> > >>> >
> > >>>> >     >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >     --
> > >>> >     An Excellent Credit Score is 750
> > >>> >     See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >     
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>> >     To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the 
> > OASIS TC that
> > >>> >     generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your TCs 
> > in OASIS at:
> > >>> >
> > >>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> > --
> > >>> > Come to Adobe MAX 2009 and sign up for the LiveCycle Bundle -
> > >>> > http://max.adobe.com/sessions/livecycle/?sdid=EUQZE
> > >>> > Twitter: duancechaos
> > >>> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Rex Brooks
> > >> President, CEO
> > >> Starbourne Communications Design
> > >> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
> > >> Berkeley, CA 94702
> > >> Tel: 510-898-0670
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> The information contained in this communication may be
> > >> CONFIDENTIAL and is intended only for the use of the
> > >> recipient(s) named above.  If you are not the intended
> > >> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
> > >> distribution, or copying of this communication, or any of its
> > >> contents, is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this
> > >> communication in error, please notify the sender and
> > >> delete/destroy the original message and any copy of it from your
> > >> computer or paper files.
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
> > >> generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at:
> > >> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
> > >>
> > >>
> 
> > 
> 
> 
> --
> An Excellent Credit Score is 750
> See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that
> generates this mail.  Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at:
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> 
> 
> 
> --
> Come to Adobe MAX 2009 and sign up for the LiveCycle Bundle - 
> http://max.adobe.com/sessions/livecycle/?sdid=EUQZE
> Twitter: duancechaos
> 

>


-- 
An Excellent Credit Score is 750 
See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!



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