Ahh, that is not the way we’ve used public and private. Current definitions:
Private state: The private state is that part of an entity‘s state that is knowable by, and accessible to, only that entity
Shared state: Shared state is that part of an entity‘s state that is knowable by, and may be accessible to, other actors.
In order for a state to be shared, it must be public.
Ken
Would you agree that 'public' means that anybody can get the thing while 'private' means that only limited and permitted persons can get the thing?
If you agree, then an interaction between a consumer and a service may be private while the service may be publicly accessible. If anybody can interfere with service interaction, it is public interaction; otherwise, it is private.
I think this is very clear.
- Michael
No, the internal counter is not public.
This means that ALL service results are always shared with, at least , the result requester. It is OK with me.
Now, we have to proof that everything is public in SOA ecosystem and close all questions about RWE and service...
No, it is shared between the requester and the calculator/service. If the requester has internal processes that increments a counter every time the calculator returns a result, this would be a private result.
But this is the private result, i.e. there is not RWE.
Calculator does processing and returns the result of the processing.
This is going to my comments earlier. If you ask a guy on the street, that the terms that he thinks in (Sorry Michael, has nothing to do with WS).
You red inlining is exactly a kind of explanation that is required + we need to describe what this change buys to system designer.
As for the calculator example, I can’t agree (sound Michael like). There is no screen – calculator is a service – it gets a message and returns a message back
Is there any major damage by my using red wording inline below?
As for importance of RWE, it is what someone wants and why they use service. The RWE of a calculator is the result it displays.
· In accepted terms a service has an interface(s) – Service interface
· Service interface has method(s) – Service methods. Service interface defines message exchange with service
· A service method (not a service) can be invoked. Message to service Interface triggers service action through corresponding private actions
· Service method provides an execution result. Triggering a service action lead to results.
· An execution result can either change a service state or return an error Public Results are changes in states or a return of information
· A change in a service state may (or not) produce RWE Changes to public states produce RWE
So far this is excepted set of thing that most of practitioners will relate to
Now here is a list of questions:
· How is service action relates to the above? is it a service method invocation?
· Why do we care so much about RWE? A calculator is a useful service with no RWE
Let’s try it this way: a service action (by which I mean an action from the Action Model) results in the change of public and possibly private states. The change in public states is RWE, the change in private states is unknown to the SOA ecosystem unless these become public at a later time.
I gave this example as an evidence of inconsistency and brocken/forgotten dependency between definitions.
I have to be more accurate: "then we have said that that result is outside the scope of our consideration" is not the same as "we just said it is not what we are considering under RWE". The latter I is true if RWE is public only BUT the former may be understood as that private service result is out of the scope of RAF! This I cannot agree with because BOTH types of result belong to the SOA ecosystem.
Service Action produces private (always) and public (sometimes) results and only the public one is RWE. If you agree with this statement, than the purpose of the service is to produce Result whether public or private, or both.
I agree with most of your points, except the final one on RWE. Someone may use a service to satisfy some private need but if the result is only known privately, then we have said that that result is outside the scope of our consideration. We didn’t say the private result didn’t occur, we just said it is not what we are considering under RWE.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934
7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379
Before going through details and definitions, I think we have to agree on the a few principles.
Since RAF is about SOA ecosystem and we agreed that this one includes both business and technology then:
1) we cannot operate with definitions from RM with no changes because RM did not considered ecosystem. However, the changes of RM definitions should not deny the original definitions but may modify/extend them for the new context - ecosystem
2) all definitions we use have to be either meaningful/"interepretable" in both Business and Technology or we have explicitly identify the scope of the definition and justify that it does not work in the entire ecosystem ( in this case we will never confuse SOA-based system with 'just'/technical system
3) we have to draw a relationship/dependency lines (like in Value Networks) between our definitions to see consistency and influence between them.
This better be not in a table format but in a map format. For example, in one place we say that service purpose is to provide a RWE; in another place we say that RWE is only shared/pubic thing; this leads to the conclusion that the purpose of service is to provide only shared/pubic thing, which is incorrect.
If we can agree on these principles and approach, we can eliminate a lot of unnecessary discussions
As promised, attached is a comparison of the terms defined in the 28 July 2010 draft alongside the definitions used in the latest draft (in Excel and .ods formats)
As you will see, there are precious few instances of where the definitions match exactly, although in many cases it was more a case of cleaning up the wording (particularly to conform with standards for definitions, eg ISO 1087) than actually changing the definition.
Transforming our Relationships with Information Technologies
Blog pensivepeter.wordpress.com
P.O. Box 49719, Los Angeles, CA 90049, USA
The information contained in this communication may be CONFIDENTIAL and is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication, or any of its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete/destroy the original message and any copy of it from your computer or paper files.
The information contained in this communication may be CONFIDENTIAL and is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication, or any of its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete/destroy the original message and any copy of it from your computer or paper files.