RE: [soa-rm-ra] about "service-oriented business collaborations"

["Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>]

This is my last attempt to "make the case" for you.

A collaboration may be of two basic types only: 1) a collaboration of "things" and we call it just collaboration; 2) a collaboration of services and we call it services collaboration
(how to call a collaboration of mixture of services and "things" is up to you)

Since each service is service-oriented , we can say that the services collaboration is a service-oriented collaboration.

Any business is a service  (by definition of business), i.e. collaboration of businesses is a service-oriented collaboration.

In this line of logic, an _expression_ "service-oriented business collaboration" is a tautology not suitable for the standards.


Regarding "service-oreiented business process", I talked with Jason Bloomberg about this. He has said that the term "“Service-Oriented Process" was coined in 2002 (not in 2007 in his and Ron's book). He also said: "The meaning of the phrase has evolved somewhat since that time, but essentially what we mean by Service-Oriented Process is a business process that is implemented (or automated) as a composition of Services. Such compositions are meta-data-driven, declarative applications that implement such processes."

When we talk about business process, each business action is a service and has its consumer. A business service of just one action is a regular case. That is, according to Jason, every business process is a “Service-Oriented Process".

According to several public statements in the LinkedIn discussions, BPM.org and some books (e.g. Improving business process management systems ), every process is a service. Every business process is a service because it always has business consumer. Thus, every business process is service-oriented.

In this line of logic, an _expression_ "service-oriented business process" is a tautology not suitable for the standards.


I hope, this makes sense. If somebody is still disagree, then we certainly agree to disagree.

Cheers,
- Michael

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Peter F Brown

Sent: 11/10/11 06:36 PM

To: Mike Poulin, boris.lublinsky@navteq.com, soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org

Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] about "service-oriented business collaborations"

I’m sorry, Michael, you haven’t made the case for me. Simply repeating your assertion won’t convince me J

 

 

 

 

 

We – you, me, Boris, others - are currently collaborating in business (SOA TC, this conversation, etc) – where is the service?

 

 

 

 

 

Peter F Brown

 

 

Independent Consultant

 

 

www.peterfbrown.com

 

 

P.O. Box 49719, Los Angeles, CA 90049, USA

 

 

Tel: +1.310.694.2278

 

 

 

 

 

From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com]
Sent: Thursday, 10 November, 2011 10:29
To: Lublinsky, Boris; Peter F Brown; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] about "service-oriented business collaborations"

 

 

 

 

 

-1

All   _business_  collaborations are services. I did not talk about collaborations in general. This is the _big_ difference.

- Michael

 

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

 

 

From: boris.lublinsky@navteq.com

 

 

Sent: 11/10/11 04:38 AM

 

 

To: Peter F Brown, Mike Poulin, soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org

 

 

Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] about "service-oriented business collaborations"

 

 

 

 

 

+1

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf Of Peter F Brown
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 5:16 PM
To: Mike Poulin; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] about "service-oriented business collaborations"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Michael,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don’t agree. All services are collaborations but not all forms of collaboration are services. Likewise all services may be business “products” but not all products are services.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Examples:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-          I collaborate with partners, in different configurations for different projects, and together we provide a service to a client – we do not provide a service to each other.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-          I produce widgets and sell them to customers. I’m not providing a service, I’m providing a product.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Peter F Brown

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Independent Consultant

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

www.peterfbrown.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.O. Box 49719, Los Angeles, CA 90049, USA

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tel: +1.310.694.2278

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf Of Mike Poulin
Sent: Wednesday, 09 November, 2011 12:52
To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [soa-rm-ra] about "service-oriented business collaborations"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Folks,

I am in the conversation with James Bloomberg and has found that the _expression_ "service-oriented business collaborations" is not his and it is not even Lomow's one; it is our creature, and it is agly.

Here is nothing personal but if a business collaboration is not oriented on service, it does not exist (by the definition of collaboration). Alternatevly, please, give me only one example of  business collaboration that would not be oriented on servicing either partners or end-clients. Servicing is the only way how any business makes its revenue.

Thanks,
- Michael

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Rex Brooks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent: 11/09/11 06:01 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Subject: [soa-rm-ra] Groups - SOA-RAF-Minutes-Nov-9-2011.doc uploaded

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Document Name: SOA-RAF-Minutes-Nov-9-2011.doc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Submitter: Rex Brooks
Group: SOA-RM Reference Architecture SC
Folder: Meeting Notes
Date submitted: 2011-11-09 10:01:43
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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