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Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Groups - Rough notes taken during the last ebSOA meeting. (ebSOA-Elements.pdf) uploaded
Hmm, an interesting question because I was attempting to remain abstract in specifying what I thought were elementary functions and not specifying the "thing" that was involved. I don't know if the input and/or output of every service is a message but I have a hard time imagining an SOA where these functions didn't occur. Which ones could I drop? Is there a more general description that maintains the function? Is there an example of something that is not a message but which serves the function? Ken On Apr 10, 2005, at 3:45 PM, Matthew MacKenzie wrote: > create, transport, receive, save and archive don't strike me as being > words that convey "abstract" very well, wouldn't you agree? > > Is the input and/or output of every consumption of a service > necessarily a "message"? > -matt > > On 10-Apr-05, at 12:10 PM, Ken Laskey wrote: > >> I have not yet gone through the rest of this thread (and several >> others) but it seems that while the message itself is not part of the >> RM, the ability to create, transport, receive, and possibly >> save/archive the message is part of the RM. Can we conceive of an >> SOA without messages? Consider the message exchange patterns (MEPs) >> that are part of WSDL 2.0 for the types of message patterns people >> imagine. Do we think these are accurate? How does the RM >> acknowledge these? >> >> Ken >> >> >> On Mar 30, 2005, at 7:32 PM, Duane Nickull wrote: >> >>> Hi Rebekah: >>> >>> Some comments inline: >>> >>> Metz Rebekah wrote: >>> >>>> All - >>>> I have another 25 messages to go before I catch up with all the >>>> traffic >>>> on the list, so I apologize if my comments are already outdated. >>>> >>> I would recommend reading Thomas's elegant summary - it may save you >>> some time ;-) >>> >>> >>>> Respecting the service description, contract, and data model from >>>> Duane's message - does you think that "all aspects of the service" >>>> encompasses the service interface and the policy? I like the use >>>> of the >>>> term service contract, but have seen several interpretations of the >>>> term >>>> ranging from semantics ("what is meant") to syntax (vis a vis the >>>> WSDL) >>>> and also that the WSDL is the data model is the contract. I would >>>> argue >>>> that the contract is the same as the data model. However, I'd have >>>> to >>>> think a bit more to provide a convincing argument rather than simply >>>> positing an idea. >>>> >>> The data model is the abstract concept of what data you will pass in >>> and out of a service. An open ended question is "does the data >>> model include the notion of semantics?". I would like to hear >>> comments back on this matter. >>> >>>> Continuing into the message, I would disagree with the following: >>>> >>>>> If I build something and that is "Service Oriented" >>>>> architecturally, does it have to have a "message"? No - the >>>>> service itself has a mechanism that allows a service consumer to >>>>> bind to it to invoke the service but it doesn't actually have to >>>>> be invoked for it to be "service oriented architecture". >>>> >>>> I would argue that conceptually, a message exists. <SNIP> >>>> >>> >>> Try to think abstract. If you think concrete - then the answer is >>> yes, however the reference model is not concrete. No other >>> reference models use messages by convention either. If you find one >>> that is well scrutinized and accepted by peers, please let me know. >>> >>>> The mechanism by >>>> which the consumer binds to the service and invokes it constitutes >>>> the >>>> message. >>> Conceptually - yes. The "service" element of the SOA RM draft on >>> the position paper includes the concept of a binding. A physical >>> message does not have to be sent. When using the RM to write a >>> concrete SO infrastructure architecture, one would recognize that a >>> message protocol would likely be needed to be specified, along with >>> several other items like security, potentially some sort of state >>> management (like BPM), etc etc. >>> >>> I hope this helps a bit. >>> >>> Duane >>> >>> -- *********** >>> Senior Standards Strategist - Adobe Systems, Inc. - >>> http://www.adobe.com >>> Vice Chair - UN/CEFACT Bureau Plenary - http://www.unece.org/cefact/ >>> Adobe Enterprise Developer Resources - >>> http://www.adobe.com/enterprise/developer/main.html >>> *********** >>> >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -------------------- >> Ken Laskey >> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-883-7934 >> 7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-883-1379 >> McLean VA 22102-7508 >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ Ken Laskey MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-883-7934 7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-883-1379 McLean VA 22102-7508
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