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Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Groups - Rough notes taken during the last ebSOA meeting.(ebSOA-Elements.pdf) uploaded
Christopher: Good question. Is the term "network" is too narrow and constrictive. Consider 811g and bluetooth. They do not use a TCP/IP network - they use a different medium and methodology (radio frequency / broadcast) to achieve the same implementation pattern as UDDI does for web services. Both can be boiled up to the concept of "advertising" that services are available. A service is a conceptually a "service", regardless of what the medium is that reaches it. Duane Christopher Bashioum wrote: >This is a good point. Does an SOA imply networked resources vs. resources >that are in the same process space? If so, then that implication should >somehow be part of the RM. In other words, how does the RM show that >Service Oriented is different than, say, Object Oriented? > >I had this same discussion with some folks the other day. One of them was >proposing that you could have an SOA with all of the services running on the >same processor. My response was "maybe, but the services would have to be >constructed in a way that they can just as easily exist anywhere on the >network". So ... If part of the definition of a service is that it can be >reached across the network, doesn't that imply messaging? > >-----Original Message----- >From: Matthew MacKenzie [mailto:mattm@adobe.com] >Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 3:46 PM >To: Ken Laskey >Cc: Duane Nickull; Metz Rebekah; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org >Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Groups - Rough notes taken during the last ebSOA >meeting. (ebSOA-Elements.pdf) uploaded > >create, transport, receive, save and archive don't strike me as being >words that convey "abstract" very well, wouldn't you agree? > >Is the input and/or output of every consumption of a service >necessarily a "message"? >-matt > >On 10-Apr-05, at 12:10 PM, Ken Laskey wrote: > > > >>I have not yet gone through the rest of this thread (and several >>others) but it seems that while the message itself is not part of the >>RM, the ability to create, transport, receive, and possibly >>save/archive the message is part of the RM. Can we conceive of an SOA >>without messages? Consider the message exchange patterns (MEPs) that >>are part of WSDL 2.0 for the types of message patterns people imagine. >> Do we think these are accurate? How does the RM acknowledge these? >> >>Ken >> >> >>On Mar 30, 2005, at 7:32 PM, Duane Nickull wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hi Rebekah: >>> >>>Some comments inline: >>> >>>Metz Rebekah wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>All - >>>>I have another 25 messages to go before I catch up with all the >>>>traffic >>>>on the list, so I apologize if my comments are already outdated. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>I would recommend reading Thomas's elegant summary - it may save you >>>some time ;-) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Respecting the service description, contract, and data model from >>>>Duane's message - does you think that "all aspects of the service" >>>>encompasses the service interface and the policy? I like the use of >>>>the >>>>term service contract, but have seen several interpretations of the >>>>term >>>>ranging from semantics ("what is meant") to syntax (vis a vis the >>>>WSDL) >>>>and also that the WSDL is the data model is the contract. I would >>>>argue >>>>that the contract is the same as the data model. However, I'd have >>>>to >>>>think a bit more to provide a convincing argument rather than simply >>>>positing an idea. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>The data model is the abstract concept of what data you will pass in >>>and out of a service. An open ended question is "does the data model >>>include the notion of semantics?". I would like to hear comments >>>back on this matter. >>> >>> >>> >>>>Continuing into the message, I would disagree with the following: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>If I build something and that is "Service Oriented" >>>>>architecturally, does it have to have a "message"? No - the >>>>>service itself has a mechanism that allows a service consumer to >>>>>bind to it to invoke the service but it doesn't actually have to be >>>>>invoked for it to be "service oriented architecture". >>>>> >>>>> >>>>I would argue that conceptually, a message exists. <SNIP> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Try to think abstract. If you think concrete - then the answer is >>>yes, however the reference model is not concrete. No other reference >>>models use messages by convention either. If you find one that is >>>well scrutinized and accepted by peers, please let me know. >>> >>> >>> >>>>The mechanism by >>>>which the consumer binds to the service and invokes it constitutes >>>>the >>>>message. >>>> >>>> >>>Conceptually - yes. The "service" element of the SOA RM draft on the >>>position paper includes the concept of a binding. A physical message >>>does not have to be sent. When using the RM to write a concrete SO >>>infrastructure architecture, one would recognize that a message >>>protocol would likely be needed to be specified, along with several >>>other items like security, potentially some sort of state management >>>(like BPM), etc etc. >>> >>>I hope this helps a bit. >>> >>>Duane >>> >>>-- *********** >>>Senior Standards Strategist - Adobe Systems, Inc. - >>>http://www.adobe.com >>>Vice Chair - UN/CEFACT Bureau Plenary - http://www.unece.org/cefact/ >>>Adobe Enterprise Developer Resources - >>>http://www.adobe.com/enterprise/developer/main.html >>>*********** >>> >>> >>> >>> >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>------------------- >>Ken Laskey >>MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-883-7934 >>7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-883-1379 >>McLean VA 22102-7508 >> >> >> >> > > > > > > -- *********** Senior Standards Strategist - Adobe Systems, Inc. - http://www.adobe.com Vice Chair - UN/CEFACT Bureau Plenary - http://www.unece.org/cefact/ Adobe Enterprise Developer Resources - http://www.adobe.com/enterprise/developer/main.html ***********
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