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Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Types of Services (RE: [soa-rm] Definition of "ServiceConsumer")


Chiusano Joseph wrote:

> <Quote>
> Intuitively, I am bothered by the idea that a dll can be a service 
> within an SOA. 
> </Quote>
>  
> Me too - I think it's more accurate to say that a dll can be the 
> underlying "executable" that is represented by a service interface and 
> behavior description.


This seems as useful distictions to make between a "physical" 
manifestation of a service (component) from its (provided, required) 
interface(s) from behavior and also from the intended "function(s)".

/anders

>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Joseph Chiusano
>
> Booz Allen Hamilton
>
> Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com <http://www.boozallen.com/>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Christopher Bashioum [mailto:cbashioum@mitre.org]
> *Sent:* Mon 4/11/2005 12:04 PM
> *To:* 'Matthew MacKenzie'
> *Cc:* soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
> *Subject:* RE: [soa-rm] Types of Services (RE: [soa-rm] Definition of 
> "Service Consumer")
>
> But I thought we agreed earlier on that advertisement was an important 
> part of the SOA model - how would a dll advertise?  Through the 
> registry of a given OS, but is it available to handle requests from 
> outside the given OS?  (I'm obviously not an expert on dlls ; )
>  
> Intuitively, I am bothered by the idea that a dll can be a service 
> within an SOA.  It is more of a gut thing.  Since there is no 
> definitive SOA RM (that's what we are in the process of creating), I 
> have no basis for my feeling other than that all of the SOA 
> implementations I have looked at span process and machine boundaries.
>  
> I thought Microsoft considered the .net environment to be SOA, but I 
> have not heard them talk about dlls as SOA.  Again, I am no expert in 
> .net, but I thought .net got into the cross-machine boundaries, 
> wherease .dlls are limited to the given OS.
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* Matthew MacKenzie [mailto:mattm@adobe.com]
>     *Sent:* Monday, April 11, 2005 11:47 AM
>     *To:* Christopher Bashioum
>     *Cc:* soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>     *Subject:* Re: [soa-rm] Types of Services (RE: [soa-rm] Definition
>     of "Service Consumer")
>
>     A .so or .dll may actually be a service within an SOA, yes.
>
>     I am balking at the idea that a service requires a request bearing
>     a message for either input or output. I am worried that by doing
>     this we are just defining WSDL without an XML binding :-)
>
>     -Matt
>
>     On 11-Apr-05, at 8:36 AM, Christopher Bashioum wrote:
>
>         But doesn't this leave open an SOA being just a form of OO? 
>         Would a C++ library be an SOA?  Could you elaborate on your
>         use case- maybe that will help me understand better.  In
>         particular, i'm wondering about the "automatically perform"
>         portion.  This may be a difficult area, because we don't want
>         to get too concrete, but at the same time we shouldn't try to
>         be so abstract that anything goes. 
>          
>         Maybe we can put in a placeholder for the message or bus
>         mechanism, and see if it can drop out of the RM later or if it
>         begins to show itself as an essential part of the RM (at which
>         time we can decide what to call it).
>
>
>         *From:* Matthew MacKenzie [mailto:mattm@adobe.com]
>         *Sent:* Monday, April 11, 2005 11:27 AM
>         *To:* Christopher Bashioum
>         *Cc:* soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>         *Subject:* Re: [soa-rm] Types of Services (RE: [soa-rm]
>         Definition of "Service Consumer")
>
>         A service is merely something that performs some task(s) on
>         behalf of / for a consumer. Defining the mechanics of how the
>         service knows what or when to do is, to me, not in scope for
>         SOA-RM.
>
>         I envision services residing within an SOA that automatically
>         perform services on behalf of a dynamic set of consumers based
>         on their own determination of the requirement for a service to
>         be rendered. I want this kind of use case to be recognized
>         within the reference model without needing to explicitly spell
>         it out.
>
>         -Matt
>
>
>         On 11-Apr-05, at 7:27 AM, Christopher Bashioum wrote:
>
>
>         Ken and Joe,
>          
>         do all services have a 2-way communication mechanism, or is it
>         possible to have a service that just consumes messages (or
>         just sends messages)?  The reason I am asking, is that it
>         looks like all the interactions mentioned so far involve a
>         request and a response, but I am wondering about the idea of
>         events or broadcasts. 
>          
>          
>
>
>         *From:* Ken Laskey [mailto:klaskey@mitre.org]
>         *Sent:* Monday, April 11, 2005 12:34 AM
>         *To:* Chiusano Joseph
>         *Cc:* Christopher Bashioum; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>         *Subject:* Re: [soa-rm] Types of Services (RE: [soa-rm]
>         Definition of "Service Consumer")
>
>         Let me suggest the following:
>
>         A /data resource/ is a source of content. It accepts a request
>         and returns a value or set of values in response. The return
>         can be an entity (such as a particular schema), an attribute
>         of an entity (such as when the schema was last modified), or
>         any numerical or textual value or set of values. The content
>         can be static objects stored in some repository or dynamically
>         generated through the use of a processing resource. Data about
>         a missile that is stored in a database is content. The weather
>         forecast for tomorrow is content generated from a weather
>         simulation. In a net-centric environment, the requester does
>         not know the format from which the response is retrieved or
>         how it is generated.
>
>         A /processing resource/ is one that accepts a task and return
>         a status indicating the extent to which the task was completed
>         and information on how the state of entities changed as a
>         result of the processing. One or more processing resources may
>         be invoked as part of a process of submitting a query and
>         being returned a response. From the standpoint of a user
>         (either human or machine), it is unimportant what combination
>         of data and processing resources are invoked as long as the
>         request is satisfied.
>
>         Services interact with (i.e. use, invoke, access, ...) these
>         resources.
>
>         Ken
>
>         On Apr 10, 2005, at 2:00 PM, Chiusano Joseph wrote:
>
>
>         I wonder if the roles a service can play - or, perhaps one can
>         say, the
>         general types of services that can exist - have any bearing on
>         our RM at
>         all, in an indirect way.
>
>         Put in simple terms, one may say that there are - in general - 3
>         overarching "types" of services. These correspond to 3 of the
>         layers of
>         the general "integration stack" (data, application, and process):
>
>         (1) Data-Oriented Service: Primary role is to accept and
>         process data,
>         or provide data based upon a request.
>
>         Two general types:
>
>         (a) Data Processor*: Accepts as input a set of data, processes
>         that
>         data, and (optionally) sends a response. The response may
>         simply be an
>         acknowledgement, or another set of data to be processed by the
>         service
>         requester**.
>
>         Ex: Simple form acceptance service, such as a loan application
>         form
>         service acting on behalf of multiple banks (routes to proper
>         bank and
>         sends back acknowledgement to form submitter)
>
>         (b) Data Provider: Provides streaming data, or a set of data upon
>         request.
>
>         Ex's: RSS news feed (streaming data), stock quote (set of data
>         upon
>         request - given stock ticker symbol)
>
>         *need better term - using this for illustration purposes only
>         **using term "requester" for now since we have not established our
>         perferred term
>
>         (2) Application-Oriented Service (aka "Function-Oriented
>         Service"):
>         Primary role is to accept a command and carry out processing
>         based on
>         that command, in a singular fashion (i.e. does not invoke other
>         services).
>
>         Ex's: Inventory verification service (accepts item #, responds
>         with
>         whether or not it is in inventory), shipment cost calculation
>         service
>
>         (3) Process-Oriented Service: Similar to Application-Oriented
>         Service,
>         but invokes other services in carrying out its processing (i.e. it
>         embodies the definition of an overarching process).
>
>         Ex: Order processing service (checks customer credit, checks
>         inventory,
>         does shipment cost calculation, etc.)
>
>         Thoughts?
>
>         Joe
>
>         Joseph Chiusano
>         Booz Allen Hamilton
>         Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com
>
>
>
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From: Christopher Bashioum [mailto:cbashioum@mitre.org]
>         Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 12:49 PM
>         To: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>         Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Definition of "Service Consumer"
>
>         When we talk about service consumer vs. provider in this
>         sense, I think we need to separate the "static" entity from
>         the dynamic role that said entity plays. A given entity can
>         be both service provider (in which case it publishes it's
>         service description) and service consumer (in which case it
>         binds to another service provider in order to accomplish its
>         own service).
>
>         So...to re-word your statement a little: An entity that binds
>         with a service is playing the role of service consumer.
>
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From: Vikas Deolaliker [mailto:vikas@sonoasystems.com]
>         Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 12:21 PM
>         To: 'Frank McCabe'; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>         Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Definition of "Service Consumer"
>
>
>         Using the publish/find/bind framework of SOA...
>
>         The entity that publishes is certainly not the consumer. The
>         entity that
>         finds may or may not be the consumer but the entity that
>         binds is certainly
>         the consumer.
>
>         So an entity that "binds" with a service would be the closest
>         to a service
>         consumer.
>
>         Vikas
>
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From: Frank McCabe [mailto:frank.mccabe@us.fujitsu.com]
>         Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 9:00 AM
>         To: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>         Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Definition of "Service Consumer"
>
>         There is a distinction between the software *entity*
>         (agent/component/J2EE bean/.../) that interacts with a
>         service in order
>         to achieve some goal, and the person or persons for whom that
>         interaction is taking place.
>
>         The reason that this distinction is important is similar to the
>         distinction between a service interface and the service itself:
>         accessing your bank account from an ATM or on-line will use
>         different
>         interfaces but ultimately all use the same service.
>
>         Here is an example of why its important: the appropriate
>         business logic
>         to apply to a service request will depend on many factors:
>         the means by
>         which the request was delivered, the request itself and the
>         person (or
>         persons) for whom the request was made. This last aspect is
>         completely
>         independent of mode of requesting and is purely
>         business/application
>         specific.
>
>         Incidentally, the above definition: "an agent that interacts
>         with a
>         service in order to achieve a goal" seems to be a reasonable
>         definition
>         of a service requester.
>
>
>         On Apr 7, 2005, at 7:23 AM, Gregory A. Kohring wrote:
>
>
>         Matthew,
>
>         OK, here a fewer other choices which might be deemed more
>         "respectful"...
>
>         Service Consumer:
>
>         1) End-user of a service.
>
>         2) An agent which, acting on behalf of its owner, uses a service.
>
>         3) An entity which utilizes a service
>
>         4) An entity which consumes the product or information
>         produced by a
>         service.
>
>
>         Note all of these definitions depend upon the definition of the
>         term "service". Have we agreed on this already? Perhaps we should
>         start there first...
>
>
>         -- Greg
>
>
>
>         Matthew MacKenzie wrote:
>
>         I think services deserve respect, lets try not to exploit them :-)
>         Gregory A. Kohring wrote:
>
>         Thomas,
>
>         Perhaps one should use a somewhat broader definition
>         which captures
>
>         the human user as well:
>
>         Service Consumer: An entity which exploits a service.
>
>
>         -- Greg
>
>
>         Thomas Erl wrote:
>
>
>         Now that we've decided on the term "service consumer" it may be
>         useful to formally define it. The term "consumer" is used by the
>         WS-I Basic Profile wherein it is simply defined as
>         "Software that
>
>         invokes an instance."
>
>         Thomas
>
>
>
>
>
>         --
>
>         ======================================================================
>
>         G.A. Kohring
>         C&C Research Laboratories, NEC Europe Ltd.
>
>         ======================================================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>         Ken Laskey
>         MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-883-7934
>         7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-883-1379
>         McLean VA 22102-7508
>


-- 

Best Regards
/Anders

////////////////////////////
/ Anders W. Tell           /
/ Financial Toolsmiths AB  /
/ <anderst@toolsmiths.se>  /
////////////////////////////

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