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Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Groups - Rough notes taken during the last ebSOA meeting.(ebSOA-Elements.pdf) uploaded
Its is an interesting dicsussion wether a message is part of a RM or not. If one want to create, send receive, listen, save etc then what is to be operated on if some container of information is not part of the RM? There seem to a need to for some basic key concepts if one want to build higher level (semantically enriched) constructs. A RM could benefit from being mappable, extended, made concrete, made detailed etc. /anders /anders Ken Laskey wrote: > I have not yet gone through the rest of this thread (and several > others) but it seems that while the message itself is not part of the > RM, the ability to create, transport, receive, and possibly > save/archive the message is part of the RM. Can we conceive of an > SOA without messages? Consider the message exchange patterns (MEPs) > that are part of WSDL 2.0 for the types of message patterns people > imagine. Do we think these are accurate? How does the RM > acknowledge these? > > Ken > > > On Mar 30, 2005, at 7:32 PM, Duane Nickull wrote: > >> Hi Rebekah: >> >> Some comments inline: >> >> Metz Rebekah wrote: >> >>> All - >>> I have another 25 messages to go before I catch up with all the >>> traffic >>> on the list, so I apologize if my comments are already outdated. >>> >> I would recommend reading Thomas's elegant summary - it may save you >> some time ;-) >> >> >>> Respecting the service description, contract, and data model from >>> Duane's message - does you think that "all aspects of the service" >>> encompasses the service interface and the policy? I like the use >>> of the >>> term service contract, but have seen several interpretations of the >>> term >>> ranging from semantics ("what is meant") to syntax (vis a vis the >>> WSDL) >>> and also that the WSDL is the data model is the contract. I would >>> argue >>> that the contract is the same as the data model. However, I'd have to >>> think a bit more to provide a convincing argument rather than simply >>> positing an idea. >>> >> The data model is the abstract concept of what data you will pass in >> and out of a service. An open ended question is "does the data >> model include the notion of semantics?". I would like to hear >> comments back on this matter. >> >>> Continuing into the message, I would disagree with the following: >>> >>>> If I build something and that is "Service Oriented" >>>> architecturally, does it have to have a "message"? No - the >>>> service itself has a mechanism that allows a service consumer to >>>> bind to it to invoke the service but it doesn't actually have to >>>> be invoked for it to be "service oriented architecture". >>> >>> >>> I would argue that conceptually, a message exists. <SNIP> >>> >> >> Try to think abstract. If you think concrete - then the answer is >> yes, however the reference model is not concrete. No other >> reference models use messages by convention either. If you find one >> that is well scrutinized and accepted by peers, please let me know. >> >>> The mechanism by >>> which the consumer binds to the service and invokes it constitutes the >>> message. >> >> Conceptually - yes. The "service" element of the SOA RM draft on >> the position paper includes the concept of a binding. A physical >> message does not have to be sent. When using the RM to write a >> concrete SO infrastructure architecture, one would recognize that a >> message protocol would likely be needed to be specified, along with >> several other items like security, potentially some sort of state >> management (like BPM), etc etc. >> >> I hope this helps a bit. >> >> Duane >> >> -- *********** >> Senior Standards Strategist - Adobe Systems, Inc. - >> http://www.adobe.com >> Vice Chair - UN/CEFACT Bureau Plenary - http://www.unece.org/cefact/ >> Adobe Enterprise Developer Resources - >> http://www.adobe.com/enterprise/developer/main.html >> *********** >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > Ken Laskey > MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-883-7934 > 7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-883-1379 > McLean VA 22102-7508 > > > -- Best Regards /Anders //////////////////////////// / Anders W. 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