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Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Types of Services (RE: [soa-rm] Definition of"Service Consumer")


The concept of architectural views is important to consider when 
answering this question.

If you are looking at it from one aspect - there is no difference.  It 
is like HTTP get() and post().  If you observe the patterns, they are 
identical. 
get() = client sends a text string to server, server responds
post() = client sends a text string to server, server responds

If, on the other hand, you compare the parameter constraints, get() has 
limitations that post() does not (max characters for example).  At some 
time, someone also made a declaration that getting something is 
conceptually different that posting something.

For the service question below, when asking in terms of the RM, it is 
not relevant.  If you were asking it from a specific architecture and 
viewing the MEP's, it is different.

Duane

Chiusano Joseph wrote:

>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Ken Laskey [mailto:klaskey@mitre.org] 
>>Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 2:59 PM
>>To: Duane Nickull
>>Cc: Christopher Bashioum; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Types of Services (RE: [soa-rm] 
>>Definition of "Service Consumer")
>>
>>So the question is whether a subscription service is 
>>fundamentally different from other services.  
>>    
>>
>
>I would say no.
>
>Kind Regards,
>Joseph Chiusano
>Booz Allen Hamilton
>Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com
>
>  
>
>>Need to chew on that.
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>Ken
>>
>>At 02:33 PM 4/11/2005, Duane Nickull wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>I could implement a subscription service that pushed news 
>>>      
>>>
>>headers to my 
>>    
>>
>>>desktop.  I request the service once and I consume it every time my 
>>>system is turned on.
>>>
>>>Logically, this may be a pattern of 'request-consume' yet 
>>>      
>>>
>>there is no 
>>    
>>
>>>direct correlation between a specific request message and 
>>>      
>>>
>>any response 
>>    
>>
>>>message exists.  1 to *.
>>>
>>>Duane
>>>
>>>Ken Laskey wrote:
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Duane,
>>>>
>>>>Do you have an example in mind?
>>>>
>>>>Ken
>>>>
>>>>At 12:14 PM 4/11/2005, Duane Nickull wrote:
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>It is possible to request a service once and consume it multiple 
>>>>>times thereafter.
>>>>>
>>>>>Duane Nickull.
>>>>>
>>>>>Christopher Bashioum wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>Ken and Joe,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>do all services have a 2-way communication mechanism, or is it 
>>>>>>possible to have a service that just consumes messages (or just 
>>>>>>sends messages)?  The reason I am asking, is that it 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>looks like all 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>the interactions mentioned so far involve a request and a 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>response, 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>but I am wondering about the idea of events or broadcasts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>--------------
>>    
>>
>>>>>>    From: Ken Laskey [mailto:klaskey@mitre.org]
>>>>>>    Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:34 AM
>>>>>>    To: Chiusano Joseph
>>>>>>    Cc: Christopher Bashioum; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>>>    Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Types of Services (RE: 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>[soa-rm] Definition
>>    
>>
>>>>>>    of "Service Consumer")
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Let me suggest the following:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    A data resource is a source of content. It accepts a 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>request and
>>    
>>
>>>>>>    returns a value or set of values in response. The 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>return can be an
>>    
>>
>>>>>>    entity (such as a particular schema), an attribute 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>of an entity
>>    
>>
>>>>>>    (such as when the schema was last modified), or any 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>numerical or
>>    
>>
>>>>>>    textual value or set of values. The content can be 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>static objects
>>    
>>
>>>>>>    stored in some repository or dynamically generated 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>through the use
>>    
>>
>>>>>>    of a processing resource. Data about a missile that 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>is stored in a
>>    
>>
>>>>>>    database is content. The weather forecast for 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>tomorrow is content
>>    
>>
>>>>>>    generated from a weather simulation. In a 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>net-centric environment,
>>    
>>
>>>>>>    the requester does not know the format from which 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>the response is
>>    
>>
>>>>>>    retrieved or how it is generated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    A processing resource is one that accepts a task and return a
>>>>>>    status indicating the extent to which the task was 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>completed and
>>    
>>
>>>>>>    information on how the state of entities changed as 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>a result of
>>    
>>
>>>>>>    the processing. One or more processing resources may 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>be invoked as
>>    
>>
>>>>>>    part of a process of submitting a query and being returned a
>>>>>>    response. From the standpoint of a user (either 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>human or machine),
>>    
>>
>>>>>>    it is unimportant what combination of data and processing
>>>>>>    resources are invoked as long as the request is satisfied.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Services interact with (i.e. use, invoke, access, ...) these
>>>>>>    resources.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Ken
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    On Apr 10, 2005, at 2:00 PM, Chiusano Joseph wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        I wonder if the roles a service can play - or, 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>perhaps one can
>>    
>>
>>>>>>        say, the
>>>>>>        general types of services that can exist - have 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>any bearing on
>>    
>>
>>>>>>        our RM at
>>>>>>        all, in an indirect way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Put in simple terms, one may say that there are 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>- in general - 3
>>    
>>
>>>>>>        overarching "types" of services. These 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>correspond to 3 of the
>>    
>>
>>>>>>        layers of
>>>>>>        the general "integration stack" (data, 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>application, and process):
>>    
>>
>>>>>>        (1) Data-Oriented Service: Primary role is to accept and
>>>>>>        process data,
>>>>>>        or provide data based upon a request.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Two general types:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        (a) Data Processor*: Accepts as input a set of 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>data, processes
>>    
>>
>>>>>>        that
>>>>>>        data, and (optionally) sends a response. The response may
>>>>>>        simply be an
>>>>>>        acknowledgement, or another set of data to be 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>processed by the
>>    
>>
>>>>>>        service
>>>>>>        requester**.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Ex: Simple form acceptance service, such as a 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>loan application
>>    
>>
>>>>>>        form
>>>>>>        service acting on behalf of multiple banks 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>(routes to proper
>>    
>>
>>>>>>        bank and
>>>>>>        sends back acknowledgement to form submitter)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        (b) Data Provider: Provides streaming data, or a 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>set of data upon
>>    
>>
>>>>>>        request.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Ex's: RSS news feed (streaming data), stock 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>quote (set of data
>>    
>>
>>>>>>        upon
>>>>>>        request - given stock ticker symbol)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        *need better term - using this for illustration 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>purposes only
>>    
>>
>>>>>>        **using term "requester" for now since we have 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>not established our
>>    
>>
>>>>>>        perferred term
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        (2) Application-Oriented Service (aka "Function-Oriented
>>>>>>        Service"):
>>>>>>        Primary role is to accept a command and carry 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>out processing
>>    
>>
>>>>>>        based on
>>>>>>        that command, in a singular fashion (i.e. does 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>not invoke other
>>    
>>
>>>>>>        services).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Ex's: Inventory verification service (accepts 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>item #, responds
>>    
>>
>>>>>>        with
>>>>>>        whether or not it is in inventory), shipment 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>cost calculation
>>    
>>
>>>>>>        service
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        (3) Process-Oriented Service: Similar to 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>Application-Oriented
>>    
>>
>>>>>>        Service,
>>>>>>        but invokes other services in carrying out its 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>processing (i.e. it
>>    
>>
>>>>>>        embodies the definition of an overarching process).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Ex: Order processing service (checks customer 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>credit, checks
>>    
>>
>>>>>>        inventory,
>>>>>>        does shipment cost calculation, etc.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Joe
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Joseph Chiusano
>>>>>>        Booz Allen Hamilton
>>>>>>        Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>            From: Christopher Bashioum 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>[mailto:cbashioum@mitre.org]
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 12:49 PM
>>>>>>            To: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>>>            Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Definition of "Service 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>Consumer"
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            When we talk about service consumer vs. 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>provider in this
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            sense, I think we need to separate the 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>"static" entity from
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            the dynamic role that said entity plays. A 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>given entity can
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            be both service provider (in which case it 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>publishes it's
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            service description) and service consumer 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>(in which case it
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            binds to another service provider in order 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>to accomplish its
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            own service).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            So...to re-word your statement a little: An 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>entity that binds
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            with a service is playing the role of 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>service consumer.
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>            From: Vikas Deolaliker 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>[mailto:vikas@sonoasystems.com]
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 12:21 PM
>>>>>>            To: 'Frank McCabe'; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>>>            Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Definition of "Service 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>Consumer"
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            Using the publish/find/bind framework of SOA...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            The entity that publishes is certainly not 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>the consumer. The
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            entity that
>>>>>>            finds may or may not be the consumer but the 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>entity that
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            binds is certainly
>>>>>>            the consumer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            So an entity that "binds" with a service 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>would be the closest
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            to a service
>>>>>>            consumer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            Vikas
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>            From: Frank McCabe 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>[mailto:frank.mccabe@us.fujitsu.com]
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 9:00 AM
>>>>>>            To: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>>>            Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Definition of "Service 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>Consumer"
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            There is a distinction between the software *entity*
>>>>>>            (agent/component/J2EE bean/.../) that 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>interacts with a
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            service in order
>>>>>>            to achieve some goal, and the person or 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>persons for whom that
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            interaction is taking place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            The reason that this distinction is 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>important is similar
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            to the
>>>>>>            distinction between a service interface and 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>the service
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            itself:
>>>>>>            accessing your bank account from an ATM or 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>on-line will
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            use different
>>>>>>            interfaces but ultimately all use the same service.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            Here is an example of why its important: the 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>appropriate
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            business logic
>>>>>>            to apply to a service request will depend on 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>many factors:
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            the means by
>>>>>>            which the request was delivered, the request 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>itself and the
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            person (or
>>>>>>            persons) for whom the request was made. This 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>last aspect is
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            completely
>>>>>>            independent of mode of requesting and is purely
>>>>>>            business/application
>>>>>>            specific.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            Incidentally, the above definition: "an agent that
>>>>>>            interacts with a
>>>>>>            service in order to achieve a goal" seems to 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>be a reasonable
>>    
>>
>>>>>>            definition
>>>>>>            of a service requester.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            On Apr 7, 2005, at 7:23 AM, Gregory A. Kohring wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                Matthew,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                OK, here a fewer other choices which 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>might be deemed more
>>    
>>
>>>>>>                "respectful"...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                Service Consumer:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                1) End-user of a service.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                2) An agent which, acting on behalf of 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>its owner, uses
>>    
>>
>>>>>>                a service.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                3) An entity which utilizes a service
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                4) An entity which consumes the product 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>or information
>>    
>>
>>>>>>                produced by a
>>>>>>                service.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                Note all of these definitions depend upon the
>>>>>>                definition of the
>>>>>>                term "service". Have we agreed on this already?
>>>>>>                Perhaps we should
>>>>>>                start there first...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                -- Greg
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                Matthew MacKenzie wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                    I think services deserve respect, 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>lets try not to
>>    
>>
>>>>>>                    exploit them :-)
>>>>>>                    Gregory A. Kohring wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                        Thomas,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                        Perhaps one should use a somewhat broader
>>>>>>                        definition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            which captures
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                        the human user as well:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                        Service Consumer: An entity 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>which exploits a
>>    
>>
>>>>>>                        service.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                        -- Greg
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                        Thomas Erl wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                            Now that we've decided on the term
>>>>>>                            "service consumer" it may be
>>>>>>                            useful to formally define 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>it. The term
>>    
>>
>>>>>>                            "consumer" is used by the
>>>>>>                            WS-I Basic Profile wherein 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>it is simply
>>    
>>
>>>>>>                            defined as
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            "Software that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                            invokes an instance."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                            Thomas
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>==========================================================
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>==========
>>    
>>
>>>>>>==
>>>>>>
>>>>>>                G.A. Kohring
>>>>>>                C&C Research Laboratories, NEC Europe Ltd.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>==========================================================
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>==========
>>    
>>
>>>>>>==
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>----------
>>    
>>
>>>>>>----------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Ken Laskey
>>>>>>    MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-883-7934
>>>>>>    7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-883-1379
>>>>>>    McLean VA 22102-7508
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>***********
>>>>>Senior Standards Strategist - Adobe Systems, Inc. - 
>>>>>http://www.adobe.com Vice Chair - UN/CEFACT Bureau Plenary - 
>>>>>http://www.unece.org/cefact/ Adobe Enterprise Developer 
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>Resources  - 
>>    
>>
>>>>>http://www.adobe.com/enterprise/developer/main.html
>>>>>***********
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>
>>>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>        
>>>>
>>----------
>>    
>>
>>>>-----------
>>>>
>>>>  /   Ken 
>>>>Laskey                                                     
>>>>        
>>>>
>>           \
>>    
>>
>>>> |    MITRE Corporation, M/S H305    phone:  703-883-7934   |
>>>> |    7515 Colshire Drive                    fax:      
>>>>        
>>>>
>>703-883-1379   |
>>    
>>
>>>>  \   McLean VA 22102-7508                                 
>>>>        
>>>>
>>             /
>>    
>>
>>>>------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>        
>>>>
>>----------
>>    
>>
>>>>------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>--
>>>***********
>>>Senior Standards Strategist - Adobe Systems, Inc. - 
>>>http://www.adobe.com Vice Chair - UN/CEFACT Bureau Plenary - 
>>>http://www.unece.org/cefact/ Adobe Enterprise Developer Resources  - 
>>>http://www.adobe.com/enterprise/developer/main.html
>>>***********
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>--
>>      
>>--------------------------------------------------------------
>>-------------------
>>   /   Ken 
>>Laskey                                                        
>>        \
>>  |    MITRE Corporation, M/S H305    phone:  703-883-7934   |
>>  |    7515 Colshire Drive                    fax:      
>>703-883-1379   |
>>   \   McLean VA 22102-7508                                   
>>           /
>>     
>>--------------------------------------------------------------
>>-------------------- 
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>  
>

-- 
***********
Senior Standards Strategist - Adobe Systems, Inc. - http://www.adobe.com
Vice Chair - UN/CEFACT Bureau Plenary - http://www.unece.org/cefact/
Adobe Enterprise Developer Resources  - http://www.adobe.com/enterprise/developer/main.html
***********



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